Settle A Debate For Me
Discussion
A colleague mentioned to me that he was joining this dual carriageway at the point in the link. He came around the bend and started accelerating. An HGV then appeared on his right (already on the carriageway) that he says was also accelerating. He found it hard to out-accelerate the HGV and feels that the lorry should have backed off to let him onto the carriageway in front of the HGV.
https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=51.550818,-1.7201...
His car is a 1.6 Renault Scenic. Not that fast, but way faster than an HGV, which I assume is limited to 56mph and would take an age to accelerate from maybe 40 to 56.
The debate is whether the lorry should have backed off to let him onto the carriageway. I said that the lorry doesn't have to give way to traffic on the slip road in any way, shape or form and the onus is on the driver joining the carriageway to merge with the traffic already on it. He said that in the interest of safety, the HGV should back off to let him onto the carriageway to save him from having to stop to let the lorry past before he joins behind it.
I suggested that if it was a class 1 Police driver in his situation, they would have given way to the HGV.
I'd be interested to hear people's opinions on this.
https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=51.550818,-1.7201...
His car is a 1.6 Renault Scenic. Not that fast, but way faster than an HGV, which I assume is limited to 56mph and would take an age to accelerate from maybe 40 to 56.
The debate is whether the lorry should have backed off to let him onto the carriageway. I said that the lorry doesn't have to give way to traffic on the slip road in any way, shape or form and the onus is on the driver joining the carriageway to merge with the traffic already on it. He said that in the interest of safety, the HGV should back off to let him onto the carriageway to save him from having to stop to let the lorry past before he joins behind it.
I suggested that if it was a class 1 Police driver in his situation, they would have given way to the HGV.
I'd be interested to hear people's opinions on this.
It mystifies me that many car drivers can't judge and moderate their speed and positioning on a slip road in order to join a motorway / dual carriageway without fuss. Modern cars are all fast enough to do this - it's not like anyone other than lorry drivers lacks the power to merge sensibly.
To be honest, I'm not surprised that there are numpties around who actually believe lane 1 traffic should 'budge over and make room'. They should try driving in Germany or France - relatively short slip roads, higher traffic speeds, and no-one joining expects traffic on the motorway to give way.
There should be an education campaign about this. It causes congestion.
To be honest, I'm not surprised that there are numpties around who actually believe lane 1 traffic should 'budge over and make room'. They should try driving in Germany or France - relatively short slip roads, higher traffic speeds, and no-one joining expects traffic on the motorway to give way.
There should be an education campaign about this. It causes congestion.
I would suggest you work on advancing your anticipation and planning so you start decision making earlier, and simultaneously reconsider your gear selection to make the car more responsive. What gear were you in?
Perhaps it would be courteous for the HGV driver to back off, but it's potentially 44 tonnes to slow down out of politeness, so certainly don't count on it. What will you do come the accident - argue with your insurer that they should have been nicer?
Perhaps it would be courteous for the HGV driver to back off, but it's potentially 44 tonnes to slow down out of politeness, so certainly don't count on it. What will you do come the accident - argue with your insurer that they should have been nicer?
bennyboysvuk said:
Thanks for all the responses.
My colleague said he's lowered his head beneath the parapet, so consider this debate settled.
Shame - ripe for a discussion with him about the merits of advanced driving tuition, IMO My colleague said he's lowered his head beneath the parapet, so consider this debate settled.
That's what AD is about, at least for many; XYZ happened to me - what can I do better next time, and every time?
We could only go on what your colleague told us in the OP, which was:
Personally if someone opens up a criticism of my driving, it usually has at least some merit to it, and I'll try and consider it without getting defensive. Sometimes it might result in me deciding to do nothing.
OP said:
He found it hard to out-accelerate the HGV and feels that the lorry should have backed off to let him onto the carriageway in front of the HGV.
There are two things of potential danger that could be improved upon in that sentence. If you're saying his account is wrong, so be it. It's hardly rude or anal of us to respond to what he said.Personally if someone opens up a criticism of my driving, it usually has at least some merit to it, and I'll try and consider it without getting defensive. Sometimes it might result in me deciding to do nothing.
Doh I'm a few mins late but I'm with you OP.
Having used that junction many many times my technique is to slow and if needs be stop on the corner part so I have a good view back down the DC then when I see a spot I can get into safely I will accelerate off down the slip road and join at the appropriate speed. the slipway there is long enough to go from 0-70 in pretty much any car.
Unless in heavy traffic I'm not sure why your colleague thinks the truck would be accelerating there as even if he came on at the last junction he would have been up to speed 1/4 mile back.
If it is the case that there was heavy traffic and the truck accelerated to close the gap your colleague was trying to move into then the truck driver is a bit of an arse.
The bad junction along the A419 is the one 3 along from there northbound as the slip road has a 90 degree corner onto about a 50 yard long slip road. Its a bloody nightmare when people just pull on at 25-40mph expecting all the 70+ mph traffic to make room for them.
A lot of people seem to struggle with slip roads and think that as its a scary merge then its best to be slow and cautious. They dont realise that if the got their arse in gear and got their speed up the whole process would be a lot easier and safer.
Having used that junction many many times my technique is to slow and if needs be stop on the corner part so I have a good view back down the DC then when I see a spot I can get into safely I will accelerate off down the slip road and join at the appropriate speed. the slipway there is long enough to go from 0-70 in pretty much any car.
Unless in heavy traffic I'm not sure why your colleague thinks the truck would be accelerating there as even if he came on at the last junction he would have been up to speed 1/4 mile back.
If it is the case that there was heavy traffic and the truck accelerated to close the gap your colleague was trying to move into then the truck driver is a bit of an arse.
The bad junction along the A419 is the one 3 along from there northbound as the slip road has a 90 degree corner onto about a 50 yard long slip road. Its a bloody nightmare when people just pull on at 25-40mph expecting all the 70+ mph traffic to make room for them.
A lot of people seem to struggle with slip roads and think that as its a scary merge then its best to be slow and cautious. They dont realise that if the got their arse in gear and got their speed up the whole process would be a lot easier and safer.
FeckingA said:
I happen to think that wheelies, drifting, 120mph in a 60mph limit and driving down chevrons are not safe driving, but I'm sure you will all jump to his defence.
It's not relevant to the situation in the original post though is it?Driving/riding is all about planning and observation. Get those right and the rest is pretty simple.
RB Will said:
A lot of people seem to struggle with slip roads and think that as its a scary merge then its best to be slow and cautious. They dont realise that if the got their arse in gear and got their speed up the whole process would be a lot easier and safer.
+LotsIt amazes me people think that doing 25mph to cut up traffic doing near 70mph is somehow safer than getting they bloody foot down & driving properly.
FeckingA said:
See, I don't tend to respond to forum posts, because you get a lot of anal people who don't just don't read the facts presented before them.
I'll put it in simpler terms then. "In the end I did join in front of the HGV with no incident" means:
- I was in 4th by the time I joined the carriageway.
- I was not screaming down the slip road, red lining in a childish attempt to beat the HGV, despite what you interpret.
- I will not be working on my anticipation, it's just fine thanks.
- It was an observation of courtesy, not a legal issue, not an insurance issue, not an accident issue.
"unlike my colleague I keep myself to sensible speeds". How does this constitute a criticism on speeding? "Sensible" is just another way of saying appropriate.
We're actually good friends as well as colleagues, we just differ on our opinions sometimes.
I happen to think that wheelies, drifting, 120mph in a 60mph limit and driving down chevrons are not safe driving, but I'm sure you will all jump to his defence.
Dotted white line means give way...I'll put it in simpler terms then. "In the end I did join in front of the HGV with no incident" means:
- I was in 4th by the time I joined the carriageway.
- I was not screaming down the slip road, red lining in a childish attempt to beat the HGV, despite what you interpret.
- I will not be working on my anticipation, it's just fine thanks.
- It was an observation of courtesy, not a legal issue, not an insurance issue, not an accident issue.
"unlike my colleague I keep myself to sensible speeds". How does this constitute a criticism on speeding? "Sensible" is just another way of saying appropriate.
We're actually good friends as well as colleagues, we just differ on our opinions sometimes.
I happen to think that wheelies, drifting, 120mph in a 60mph limit and driving down chevrons are not safe driving, but I'm sure you will all jump to his defence.
See, I don't tend to respond to forum posts, because you get a lot of anal people who don't just don't read the facts presented before them.
I'll put it in simpler terms then. "In the end I did join in front of the HGV with no incident" means:
- I was in 4th by the time I joined the carriageway.
- I was not screaming down the slip road, red lining in a childish attempt to beat the HGV, despite what you interpret.
- I will not be working on my anticipation, it's just fine thanks.
- It was an observation of courtesy, not a legal issue, not an insurance issue, not an accident issue.
"unlike my colleague I keep myself to sensible speeds". How does this constitute a criticism on speeding? "Sensible" is just another way of saying appropriate.
We're actually good friends as well as colleagues, we just differ on our opinions sometimes.
I happen to think that wheelies, drifting, 120mph in a 60mph limit and driving down chevrons are not safe driving, but I'm sure you will all jump to his defence.
I'll put it in simpler terms then. "In the end I did join in front of the HGV with no incident" means:
- I was in 4th by the time I joined the carriageway.
- I was not screaming down the slip road, red lining in a childish attempt to beat the HGV, despite what you interpret.
- I will not be working on my anticipation, it's just fine thanks.
- It was an observation of courtesy, not a legal issue, not an insurance issue, not an accident issue.
"unlike my colleague I keep myself to sensible speeds". How does this constitute a criticism on speeding? "Sensible" is just another way of saying appropriate.
We're actually good friends as well as colleagues, we just differ on our opinions sometimes.
I happen to think that wheelies, drifting, 120mph in a 60mph limit and driving down chevrons are not safe driving, but I'm sure you will all jump to his defence.
FeckingA said:
See, I don't tend to respond to forum posts, because you get a lot of anal people who don't just don't read the facts presented before them.
I'll put it in simpler terms then. "In the end I did join in front of the HGV with no incident" means:
- I was in 4th by the time I joined the carriageway.
- I was not screaming down the slip road, red lining in a childish attempt to beat the HGV, despite what you interpret.
- I will not be working on my anticipation, it's just fine thanks.
- It was an observation of courtesy, not a legal issue, not an insurance issue, not an accident issue.
A simple point here.I'll put it in simpler terms then. "In the end I did join in front of the HGV with no incident" means:
- I was in 4th by the time I joined the carriageway.
- I was not screaming down the slip road, red lining in a childish attempt to beat the HGV, despite what you interpret.
- I will not be working on my anticipation, it's just fine thanks.
- It was an observation of courtesy, not a legal issue, not an insurance issue, not an accident issue.
You said earlier that the only other option was to come to a halt just before joining - having looked at that slip road, there is no good reason to get yourself into this situation
You can see how clear the carriage way is from a distance back, if it isn't clear, you should approach very slowly and wait for an appropriate gap to accelerate for.
Sounds like you've driven to the end at a steadily accelerating speed which has put you in an unnecessarily difficult situation. If being in 4th presented an issue with accelarating out of trouble you shouldn't have been in 4th, simple as that.
RB Will said:
Doh I'm a few mins late but I'm with you OP.
Having used that junction many many times my technique is to slow and if needs be stop on the corner part so I have a good view back down the DC then when I see a spot I can get into safely I will accelerate off down the slip road and join at the appropriate speed. the slipway there is long enough to go from 0-70 in pretty much any car.
Just seen this post. Looking at the road this is the correct and safest approach to take, you should never have to slow to a stop at the end of the junction and if you do it's entirely your own fault. Having used that junction many many times my technique is to slow and if needs be stop on the corner part so I have a good view back down the DC then when I see a spot I can get into safely I will accelerate off down the slip road and join at the appropriate speed. the slipway there is long enough to go from 0-70 in pretty much any car.
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