Overtaking buses
Discussion
Following a bus along a rural road this morning, I was trying to work out whether it was worth looking for an overtake given that there was a bus stop a mile or so ahead. I was on the bike so an overtaking opportunity was quite likely to arise.
My initial thought was that I might as well wait for the bus stop so I could pass it when it was stationary and probably without having to venture onto the other side of the road. But on reflection I'm not so sure.
Once the bus has stopped you know it's going to pull out sooner or later, so if you pass without going over the white line you are using a bit of road someone else wants. Not really recommended, especially given the tendency of bus drivers to assume they have priority when pulling out of stops.
The other issue with passing a bus at a bus stop of course is pedestrians running out from in front of the bus. Not such an issue if it's moving.
Might there really be a case for overtaking moving buses in preference to stationary ones?
My initial thought was that I might as well wait for the bus stop so I could pass it when it was stationary and probably without having to venture onto the other side of the road. But on reflection I'm not so sure.
Once the bus has stopped you know it's going to pull out sooner or later, so if you pass without going over the white line you are using a bit of road someone else wants. Not really recommended, especially given the tendency of bus drivers to assume they have priority when pulling out of stops.
The other issue with passing a bus at a bus stop of course is pedestrians running out from in front of the bus. Not such an issue if it's moving.
Might there really be a case for overtaking moving buses in preference to stationary ones?
This comes down to observation : you can normally watch for passengers inside the bus getting up as they approach the stop , and can then anticipate that the bus will be stopping to let them off . You may also be able to see passengers waiting at a stop in the distance and anticipate that the bus may stop to pick them up . Other observation links taught include passengers waiting at a stop on the other side mean it is likely you will encounter a bus coming the other way ( with the possibility of people crossing the road if you meet it at another stop ) .
Only passengers getting off are likely to walk round in front of the bus ; passengers boarding the bus won't be walking round from behind it .
If there's nothing coming the other way I would still cross to the other side of the road to give plenty of clearance in case there's a child or anyone you haven't seen , also helps if the bus moves off suddenly while you are alongside .
I normally give a horn warning as I pass , just in case someone is crossing in front ( although that person could be deaf , or wearing headphones - so don't rely that they will hear it and stop ) , although I try to make it more of a 'toot' than an aggressive sounding 'blast' .
In summary , it should be fine if you exercise caution , and no reason not to use the whole road if it is available ( actually it is safer to do so ) .
Only passengers getting off are likely to walk round in front of the bus ; passengers boarding the bus won't be walking round from behind it .
If there's nothing coming the other way I would still cross to the other side of the road to give plenty of clearance in case there's a child or anyone you haven't seen , also helps if the bus moves off suddenly while you are alongside .
I normally give a horn warning as I pass , just in case someone is crossing in front ( although that person could be deaf , or wearing headphones - so don't rely that they will hear it and stop ) , although I try to make it more of a 'toot' than an aggressive sounding 'blast' .
In summary , it should be fine if you exercise caution , and no reason not to use the whole road if it is available ( actually it is safer to do so ) .
Edited by Pontoneer on Sunday 9th June 08:33
Pontoneer said:
Lots of valid points
Which is exactly why I thking it might actually be preferable to overtake it when it's moving. You have a really good indication that passengers are unlikely to be getting off, and you're likely to be using the other side of the road whether it's staionary or not.7db said:
If you can do it safely, why not? You don't know if he'll stop at the bus stop or what menace will be waiting there.
Exactly.I'm all for discussion and I understand the point about pedestrians, but is this really something that needs to be asked? Surely you just apply the same judgement that you'd apply for any vehicle in front of you? I certainly wouldn't be trundling along behind a bus on my motorbike if I didn't need to be. The decision to go could be made and the overtake completed very quickly.
MC Bodge said:
Exactly.
I'm all for discussion and I understand the point about pedestrians, but is this really something that needs to be asked? Surely you just apply the same judgement that you'd apply for any vehicle in front of you? I certainly wouldn't be trundling along behind a bus on my motorbike if I didn't need to be. The decision to go could be made and the overtake completed very quickly.
The reason I raised the point is that I've known a couple of instructors (one car one bike) specifically recommend trying to get past stationary vehicles whenever possible to save trying to overtake them on the move. But in the case of buses it seems this may not apply, and, counter intuitively, it might even be better to wait for the bus to start moving again before passing it.I'm all for discussion and I understand the point about pedestrians, but is this really something that needs to be asked? Surely you just apply the same judgement that you'd apply for any vehicle in front of you? I certainly wouldn't be trundling along behind a bus on my motorbike if I didn't need to be. The decision to go could be made and the overtake completed very quickly.
That's why I wanted to know others views, if everyone said 'pass it at the bus stop you mad fool' then passing the bus once it had started moving again might piss people off. If others agree that passing it before or after the bus stop is reasonable then I won't attract unwanted attention by doing it.
The only caveat which would apply to a moving bus , and to any other vehicle but particularly large ones which are harder to see past , is to make sure you have checked there is no obstruction ahead of the vehicle ( such as a parked car or dug up section of road ) which he is going to pull out to pass just when you might be alongside .
Just comes down to proper observation , planning and anticipation again .
Just comes down to proper observation , planning and anticipation again .
Before the stop, at the stop, after the stop. Have in your mind a level of risk which you consider acceptable when passing -- if an opportunity presents itself below that level of risk, then take it.
I agree that typically passing a stationary vehicle is easier than passing a moving one. I would't wait for a moving one to stop in order to pass it, however.
I agree that typically passing a stationary vehicle is easier than passing a moving one. I would't wait for a moving one to stop in order to pass it, however.
Dr Jekyll said:
That's why I wanted to know others views, if everyone said 'pass it at the bus stop you mad fool' then passing the bus once it had started moving again might piss people off. If others agree that passing it before or after the bus stop is reasonable then I won't attract unwanted attention by doing it.
With respect, I'm still not quite sure why you needed to ask about this.By all means be aware of passengers near buses, in-line with not proceeding unless you know the way to be clear and safe and keeping space about you, but I would regard this is part of overall awareness. In my view, decisions about overtaking should be made about individual situations rather than having a specific rule about overtaking moving or stationary buses. Surely a confident rider/driver would just assess the situation and do whatever was required?
The fewer rules the better.
7db said:
I agree that typically passing a stationary vehicle is easier than passing a moving one. I would't wait for a moving one to stop in order to pass it, however.
One thing to look out for, despite the stopped bus being easier to pass, is people getting off, walking in front of the bus and out into the road to cross to the other side. I've seen someone nearly knocked over by a car doing this because the car didn't slow or move far over from the bus enough, resulting in a pedestrian probably needing some fresh trousers and a red-faced driver. Of course, there is blame on both sides of the fence in such a situation - the driver's for not moderating speed / road position, or being ready for people stepping out, and the pedestrian's for not choosing a safer place to cross, or not looking before stepping out. However, the blame game can be hard to play fairly once someone has been run over and is in hospital or worse.123GO said:
Well,Overtaking is not a good idea and is not recommend.According to a report most of the road accident in the world is due to overtaking.SO,its better to avoid overtaking specially on a highway.
Ok thanks for that. But when you decide not to overtake, please remember not to sit on the arse of the slower moving vehicle so that those of us who do not share your opinion can form our own plans as to deal with the situation safely. 
Pontoneer said:
The only caveat which would apply to a moving bus , and to any other vehicle but particularly large ones which are harder to see past , is to make sure you have checked there is no obstruction ahead of the vehicle ( such as a parked car or dug up section of road ) which he is going to pull out to pass just when you might be alongside .
Just comes down to proper observation , planning and anticipation again .
A large vehicle could be tailgating a smaller one that you could easily not notice when following it. Quite often I've contemplated overtaking an HGV only to see that it's right up behind a car which would make the overtake a lot longer and more unpredictable. Just comes down to proper observation , planning and anticipation again .
Blakewater said:
A large vehicle could be tailgating a smaller one that you could easily not notice when following it. Quite often I've contemplated overtaking an HGV only to see that it's right up behind a car which would make the overtake a lot longer and more unpredictable.
Good point , and shadows can be your friend here since you can often see a shadow cast sideways from the small vehicle in front when you can't see the vehicle itself .There are a few, important but simple guidelines you should observe when overtaking. Constantly plan - in other words, you should be looking as far ahead as is possible, including moving your head to look along the route of, for example, a hairpin before you get to it. You should understand the risks involved, make sure you're not being overtaken yourself!!! watch for junctions ahead, someone may emerge or the guy your overtaking may turn right, watch the nearside white lines, breaks in them mean something. Be aware that some idiot may pull out when you're doing 80mph past them..........where do I go, what would I do? A nice example....I had my family in the car on a Scottish B road (home to me) behind a long line of traffic. I had planned my overtake, including the above and where I could get back into the traffic before any approaching traffic could compromise me. I started the overtake and half way through passing 10 or twelve cars one pulled out in front of me. I hit the main beam and they moved back in fairly sharpish and let me past but I had to brake and it ruined my plan and I had to hit the brakes again to get into a gap before I met oncoming traffic. The culprit? A Strathclyde Police driver training car. I know them well, I spent a lot of time in them! What really pi**ed me off was that the instructor didn't anticipate someone might be trying to pass them...........typical Police arrogance, he obviously didn't bother to check his mirrors.
However, back to the subject, you should always have a plan for an overtake but expect the unexpected. Before you even think of the pass, sit well back from the vehicle in front and understand whats going on in front, and don't overestimate the performance of your car/bike. If you can't make the pass without losing your view then don't do it. If that means waiting behind until the next bus stop than so be it. But seriously, your on a motorbike; the time between the bus stopping, you passing the bus and someone even stepping off the bus is measured in seconds. Get real.......as a bus stops, you will be half way past it, even before the doors open you will be gone........and if not you are going slowly enough that you could scoop the passengers up in your basket and drop them at their door.
Think of overtaking as an art, not a set of rules. You might conform to Turner or Picasso, whichever it is, as long as you can stop safely in the distance ahead you can see to be clear then you should be OK. And every instructor will give you a different set of 'rules' but in advanced driving you should be able to argue your case......assuming you're still alive!
However, back to the subject, you should always have a plan for an overtake but expect the unexpected. Before you even think of the pass, sit well back from the vehicle in front and understand whats going on in front, and don't overestimate the performance of your car/bike. If you can't make the pass without losing your view then don't do it. If that means waiting behind until the next bus stop than so be it. But seriously, your on a motorbike; the time between the bus stopping, you passing the bus and someone even stepping off the bus is measured in seconds. Get real.......as a bus stops, you will be half way past it, even before the doors open you will be gone........and if not you are going slowly enough that you could scoop the passengers up in your basket and drop them at their door.
Think of overtaking as an art, not a set of rules. You might conform to Turner or Picasso, whichever it is, as long as you can stop safely in the distance ahead you can see to be clear then you should be OK. And every instructor will give you a different set of 'rules' but in advanced driving you should be able to argue your case......assuming you're still alive!
What is the best way here? A bus is indicating it is stopping at a bus stop. It is a 2 lane road with no traffic. So you try to overtake the bus as you have to turn left after 50 metres. But suddenly the bus indicates that it is joining the traffic as no one probably is getting off or on and you are half way overtaking a stopping bus. Does the Bus driver still have priority in joining the traffic when he has indicated his intention to stop?
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