Approaching a cyclist who is about to be overtaken.

[FiF]

You are on a single carriageway nsl road. Nobody in front or behind.

Oncoming is a single cyclist riding quite sensibly albeit a bit further into the gutter than is probably wise for positioning.

Catching the cyclist up is one or more vehicles who are looking for the overtake.

Problem is the road is definitely not wide enough for two vehicles to pass and leave sufficient room for the cyclist.

So you are adjusting speed so that a three abreast situation won't arise And can stop Iif it all gets too hairy

Yet the opposing traffic isn't cooperating and seem determined to try and squeeze by.

Realise that the answer will all depend on the length of a piece of string but which is better

Position well out to try and dissuade the opposing overtaker that there really isn't room and be prepared that they may still go for it and what will your plan be?

Position as far left as possible to try and give them room which seems to me as a bad idea as it's a tacit invitation.

Obviously if their speed is such that clearly they are going to go for it positioning right isn't a good idea.

What do cyclists prefer?

[BadgerBenji]

That's a tricky one, i would be moving out from the gutter to try and desuade the following cars to not attempt the overtake, and that action is appropriate both for you the oncoming motorist and the cyclist.

I think the problem sometimes is cyclists don't think about road positioning and the idea of preserving a safety bubble is something I have never seen discussed in a cycling magazine.

[davepoth]

As the Highway Code says for virtually every situation, "Slow Down, and be Prepared to Stop". As soon as I'd perceived the situation I would hold course, but let off the accelerator and cover the brake in anticipation of a hard stop and dive into the gutter.

[MC Bodge]

The lack of consideration for people on bikes by many drivers really angers me at times.

FiF said:

Position well out to try and dissuade the opposing overtaker that there really isn't room and be prepared that they may still go for it and what will your plan be?

This is what I do. This situation arises quite often on a fairly narrow A-road near my in-laws' house.

In the past I have experienced cars squeezing dangerously between cars and cyclists. I now 'make my car wider' if I see this potential situation developing with oncoming cars and bikes, but I am prepared to slow/stop if there appears to be danger to the bike rider.

Incidentally, this road is horrendous for cycling along for a number of miles and I avoid riding a bike along this road by using an excellent section of the Trans-Pennine-Trail.

[simoid]

While I appreciate the sense in the "ease off/cover brake/wait and see" approach, I think in a situation such as this more decisive action could be beneficial (if I'm understanding it correctly).


If I thought that an oncoming vehicle was looking for an overtake which could cause me bother, might it be better to position myself towards the centre line so that:

a) the oncomers see I'm not receptive to their overtake and
b) I have a bit of room on the nearside to move into should they go for it nonetheless?

Obviously it depends on how kamikaze the oncoming traffic would like to be - I suppose in mitigating the possible effects of a dodgy overtake, you increase the likelihood of one occurring...

[AlR26]

As a cyclist I would much rather that the oncoming traffic took a bold position to discourage any potential overtakers squeezing through a gap that doesnt really exist. There are a few reasons why cyclists position towards the middle of the lane: it allows you to manage the space around you so you dont end up in uncomfortable situations, any motorists that are also help with that are great. The inside edges of the road also tend to collect small pieces of flint (especially if it has rained recently) which puncture bike tyres fairly easily. Personally I change my (cycling) position depending on the type of road, speed limits etc

It is normally the more confident and experienced cyclists that will position into the lane but often the less confident cyclists that actually need the extra space around them.

As a motorist, I would take a bold position and be prepared to give it up and slow depending on what the oncoming traffic does.

[MC Bodge]

AlR26 said:

As a cyclist I would much rather that the oncoming traffic took a bold position to discourage any potential overtakers squeezing through a gap that doesnt really exist.

Me too, although there is obviously the *potential* for a particularly poor driver going for the overtake anyway and forcing the bike off the road.

Rather than going for a full-on, lane-straddling move to the middle, I find that a slight move towards the centre line is usually adequate, although on occasions I have moved further.

Eg. when the oncoming car has made it clear that they still intend to come through, despite the lack of space for them, myself and the bike, whilst we have all been moving slowly through a busy urban area.

As above, though, the safety of the most vulnerable person, on the bike, is most important.

[silverfoxcc]

I am of the opinion to get as near to the crown of the road ( if the space/time/distance is still available )whilst still on my side of the white line, to 'block' the oncoming car. no doubt if he continued with the present situation, he would either clip me or the cyclist, neither of which are a great idea

[simoid]

silverfoxcc said:

I am of the opinion to get as near to the crown of the road ( if the space/time/distance is still available )whilst still on my side of the white line, to 'block' the oncoming car. no doubt if he continued with the present situation, he would either clip me or the cyclist, neither of which are a great idea

I don't think we're (hypothetically) talking about collission avoidance, more a question of not squeezing the cyclist.

[MC Bodge]

I'd like to know what could be done to make more car drivers think before they attempt to force their way past somebody riding a bike (or horse).

[simoid]

MC Bodge said:

I'd like to know what could be done to make more car drivers think before they attempt to force their way past somebody riding a bike (or horse).

They should get hi-vis jackets with, oh I don't know, something written on them...

[MC Bodge]

simoid said:

MC Bodge said:

I'd like to know what could be done to make more car drivers think before they attempt to force their way past somebody riding a bike (or horse).

They should get hi-vis jackets with, oh I don't know, something written on them...

I was 'thinking' about something more fundamental than:



ie. People driving cars being less angry and impatient because they are being "held-up" by somebody slower who will usually be easily passed in a safe location.

[7db]

If it's a fast road, the oncomer is almost certainly not going to slow down and match the cyclist's pace: he has probably committed mentally to the pass by the time you are making your choice.

All you do by taking a bold position is make it more likely that the oncomer will leave less space for the cyclist.

By cracking off some speed and thereby allowing yourself to tuck up on the nearside you make the whole situation safer for the cyclist at your expense: you give up some of your safety space. I'd have said that was usually worthwhile.

Alternatively speed up and get through the gap first?

[MC Bodge]

7db said:

If it's a fast road, the oncomer is almost certainly not going to slow down and match the cyclist's pace: he has probably committed mentally to the pass by the time you are making your choice.

Indeed. Some judgement is required. The situations I'm referring to are on slower roads.

[simoid]

7db said:

If it's a fast road, the oncomer is almost certainly not going to slow down and match the cyclist's pace: he has probably committed mentally to the pass by the time you are making your choice.

All you do by taking a bold position is make it more likely that the oncomer will leave less space for the cyclist.

By cracking off some speed and thereby allowing yourself to tuck up on the nearside you make the whole situation safer for the cyclist at your expense: you give up some of your safety space. I'd have said that was usually worthwhile.

Alternatively speed up and get through the gap first?

Obviously if the oncomer is committed to the overtake, you don't get in their way.

However, the hypothetical situation in my head involves both drivers with time to assess the situation before committing to doing whatever. Positioning at the centre could save the cyclist some close passage, with little risk methinks.

[crisisjez]

BadgerBenji said:

I think the problem sometimes is cyclists don't think about road positioning and the idea of preserving a safety bubble is something I have never seen discussed in a cycling magazine.

How do you think a cyclist can preserve a safety bubble with regard to the unseen motorist behind him?

[7db]

simoid said:

Obviously if the oncomer is committed to the overtake, you don't get in their way.

However, the hypothetical situation in my head involves both drivers with time to assess the situation before committing to doing whatever. Positioning at the centre could save the cyclist some close passage, with little risk methinks.

When we're talking about fast single-carriageway NSL roads, my experience suggests that most drivers commit to the pass when their alarm clock goes off in the morning and they get in their car. You nearly never see a car catch and match a cyclist with any sense of advance planning. They usually jam on the brakes if they suddenly find they can't get through.

I can't imagine that it's a good thing to make myself the reason for them concentrating on avoiding me, rather than avoiding the soft squishy cyclist that they are next to.

In half of all cases, I'd be prepared to bet that even without me as an on-comer they are going to squeeze past the cyclist too tightly.

[RichB]

MC Bodge said:

I'd like to know what could be done to make more car drivers think before they attempt to force their way past somebody riding a bike or horse.

Obviously it's better training but also required a shift towards the old fashioned attitude of driving being a skill rather than an entitlement.

[AlR26]

crisisjez said:

BadgerBenji said:

I think the problem sometimes is cyclists don't think about road positioning and the idea of preserving a safety bubble is something I have never seen discussed in a cycling magazine.

How do you think a cyclist can preserve a safety bubble with regard to the unseen motorist behind him?

I have certainly seen similar concepts discussed in cyling forums, try searching for 'ride the lane' or 'take the lane'. For anyone that does a reasonable number of road miles it becomes second nature to position yourself on the road. IMO the problem is actually that less confident cyclists who need the extra space and to feel more secure are the ones who are least likely to take that position and are then most likely to get squeezed by passing traffic.

You can normally tell if you have vehicles behind you by listening, it doesn't take much to have a quick glance to confirm. Obviously if someone is approaching quickly then you will have less warning. By positioning the bike towards the middle of the lane you have a couple of feet that you can give up if you feel like a passing vehicle is too close. If you are riding tight to the nearside verge and someone is too close, there is very little you can do. Typically I find that if a car has to make a move to pass, they are happy to give plenty of space, if they don't have to consciously choose to steer to pass they give less. Very few car-bike collisions are caused by cars driving into the back of a bike on a road, so having a little bit of space to move into is a good thing.

7dB: I find that most traffic leave sufficient space on a bike and wont squeeze you so long as you are managing the space around you. This is obviously harder on major A-roads but the majority will give plenty of space (and the roads tend to be quite a bit wider).

[FiF]

Thanks for the comments folks.

As I indicated in the OP it's very much a case of it all depends on the circumstances, but definitely appreciate the indications from the cyclists who have answered that, if the circumstances are suitable, then a positioning well to the right to persuade the oncomer that there really isn't room is what they'd prefer.

Having said that there are some that are so dopey that even with that positioning by me, and having got themselves down to the cyclist speed and right up his chuff they still try to go for a diminishing space that isn't there and require a rapid adoption of plan B.

Having said that if their differential speed to the cyclist is quite high, then there is no way I'll be positioning right and will be slowing down, squeezing left and prepared for a stop.