Overtaking observation
Discussion
Suppose you are looking for an overtake on a not quite straight road.
At point A there is slight right hand curve ahead of you followed by a gentle left curve leading into a long clear straight. The curves are so slight that from point A you can see all the way to the end of the straight, no junctions or entrances, a perfect overtaking opportunity with plenty of room to spare. This often happens when point A is a tight right hander.
But at point A there is a hazard to your right meaning that the overtake isn't on. A moment later you are past the hazard and entering the right hander. But from here, (point B), you have lost sight of the straight. If you wait until you get round the left hander (point c) you can see all the way down the straight and if nothing has appeared there is still plenty of room to overtake.
My question is, can an overtake from point B be acceptable? If you're happy that the view from point A a moment earlier means that there is still room even if oncoming traffic appeared at the end of the straight then it's safe. Arguably a better safety margin than waiting until point C. On the other hand you are still going into an overtake without being able to see what's round the bend.
At point A there is slight right hand curve ahead of you followed by a gentle left curve leading into a long clear straight. The curves are so slight that from point A you can see all the way to the end of the straight, no junctions or entrances, a perfect overtaking opportunity with plenty of room to spare. This often happens when point A is a tight right hander.
But at point A there is a hazard to your right meaning that the overtake isn't on. A moment later you are past the hazard and entering the right hander. But from here, (point B), you have lost sight of the straight. If you wait until you get round the left hander (point c) you can see all the way down the straight and if nothing has appeared there is still plenty of room to overtake.
My question is, can an overtake from point B be acceptable? If you're happy that the view from point A a moment earlier means that there is still room even if oncoming traffic appeared at the end of the straight then it's safe. Arguably a better safety margin than waiting until point C. On the other hand you are still going into an overtake without being able to see what's round the bend.
I do some pretty adventurous overtakes. But i wouldnt do that. I like to be able to see the whole of the road along which i will be in the "wrong" lane.
However i wouldnt have any problem with someone who did.
The only time i have done what you described, i felt really exposed when the straight was out of view.
However i wouldnt have any problem with someone who did.
The only time i have done what you described, i felt really exposed when the straight was out of view.
I'd probably be happy to use the view to adopt an offside position, but wouldn't want to add any speed until I'd got the view down the straight. Being offside gets me that view earlier too. Need to see it to give a definitive answer though.
One other related thing - if the hazard hadn't prevented it, I'd still be wary about going for the overtake on the first gentle right-hander. I'd need to assure myself that the vehicle in front wasn't likely to straighten the bend and close the gap on me.
One other related thing - if the hazard hadn't prevented it, I'd still be wary about going for the overtake on the first gentle right-hander. I'd need to assure myself that the vehicle in front wasn't likely to straighten the bend and close the gap on me.
I'm sure I don't understand the geometry of the situation, but if the view is as good as you say it is, it might be one of those occasional offside left-handers: out but not committed, looking for the pass at the start of the straight -- one which you might more commonly associate with a right-hander. Otherwise hold-back through the left-hander and re-acquire the view of the straight, cross over and pass.
No harm in not passing*
No harm in not passing*
- except where car in front has rear-facing machine guns.
I undertook such an overtake on a RoSPA test, was congratulated and got Gold. I then invited my examiner, a former police advanced instructor, to give a demo drive in my car, and by coincidence the same circumstances arose and he carried out an overtake in the same spot. But you have to be very confident that you really did see enough to be certain that the overtake is safe.
SVS said:
I also want to know the road surface is OK and that no errant pheasant/duck/etc has strayed onto the road.
You can check the road surface from point A.Livestock straying into the road is exactly what puts me off, but the pheasant etc could (would?) stray into the road if you overtake from point A so I'm not sure how much practical difference it makes.
Each situation would require individual assessment. It would depend on factors such as what is bordering the edge of the road.
It is similar to overtaking on undulating roads. In some cases, you could overtake based on a previously clear dip in the road, but in other cases you might not be confident enough that the road is still clear.
It is similar to overtaking on undulating roads. In some cases, you could overtake based on a previously clear dip in the road, but in other cases you might not be confident enough that the road is still clear.
MC Bodge said:
Each situation would require individual assessment. It would depend on factors such as what is bordering the edge of the road.
It is similar to overtaking on undulating roads. In some cases, you could overtake based on a previously clear dip in the road, but in other cases you might not be confident enough that the road is still clear.
I was told years ago - a crest is a horizontal bend - can't see = don't go.It is similar to overtaking on undulating roads. In some cases, you could overtake based on a previously clear dip in the road, but in other cases you might not be confident enough that the road is still clear.
BOF
It really depends on how long you lost your view for. Common sense dictates that if it's for a millisecond then nothing will have changed. If its for a few seconds then you have to re-assess, the guy who was given a Gold on his RoSPA test must have been safe (ahem) although I have known some pretty stupid Police drivers and some strange decisions made by examiners. They may like to think themselves infallible but none of them are.
BOF said:
I was told years ago - a crest is a horizontal bend - can't see = don't go.
BOF
Quite, but as above, if you've headed down a long downhill road bordered by stone walls and seen it to be clear for a long distance ahead, then a short period during which you can't see into a dip may not be reason not to overtake.BOF
Dr Jekyll said:
Suppose you are looking for an overtake on a not quite straight road.
At point A there is slight right hand curve ahead of you followed by a gentle left curve leading into a long clear straight. The curves are so slight that from point A you can see all the way to the end of the straight, no junctions or entrances, a perfect overtaking opportunity with plenty of room to spare. This often happens when point A is a tight right hander.
But at point A there is a hazard to your right meaning that the overtake isn't on. A moment later you are past the hazard and entering the right hander. But from here, (point B), you have lost sight of the straight. If you wait until you get round the left hander (point c) you can see all the way down the straight and if nothing has appeared there is still plenty of room to overtake.
My question is, can an overtake from point B be acceptable? If you're happy that the view from point A a moment earlier means that there is still room even if oncoming traffic appeared at the end of the straight then it's safe. Arguably a better safety margin than waiting until point C. On the other hand you are still going into an overtake without being able to see what's round the bend.
The answer is no, because you're committing yourself to being on the wrong side of the road approaching an area which you can no longer see to be clear.At point A there is slight right hand curve ahead of you followed by a gentle left curve leading into a long clear straight. The curves are so slight that from point A you can see all the way to the end of the straight, no junctions or entrances, a perfect overtaking opportunity with plenty of room to spare. This often happens when point A is a tight right hander.
But at point A there is a hazard to your right meaning that the overtake isn't on. A moment later you are past the hazard and entering the right hander. But from here, (point B), you have lost sight of the straight. If you wait until you get round the left hander (point c) you can see all the way down the straight and if nothing has appeared there is still plenty of room to overtake.
My question is, can an overtake from point B be acceptable? If you're happy that the view from point A a moment earlier means that there is still room even if oncoming traffic appeared at the end of the straight then it's safe. Arguably a better safety margin than waiting until point C. On the other hand you are still going into an overtake without being able to see what's round the bend.
Sure you might be reasonably certain that it would still be ok even if something appears at the other end of the straight but there's two potential pitfalls I can think of immediately:
1. A very fast moving vehicle coming towards you from the other end of the straight (e.g. a bike or car driven quickly) might reduce the amount of spare space to an unacceptable level, or
2. Something or someone emerging into the road from the side. I don't mean a side road, I mean a person or something coming into the road from the verge. This is always a risk, but if you can see the full length of the straight then you're more likely to see them emerging, than if you commit to be on the wrong side whilst you CAN'T see that there's nothing emerging.
Freddy88FM said:
Having lived on a farm and have seen tractors occasional pull from fields at places there is no gate would always be at the back of my mind.
So, no, I'd never overtake without a clear view.
Sure, but I'm talking about a place where you do get a clear view such that the overtake would be on, so no opportunities for tractors etc, but lose the view for a moment.So, no, I'd never overtake without a clear view.
Dr Jekyll said:
Sure, but I'm talking about a place where you do get a clear view such that the overtake would be on, so no opportunities for tractors etc, but lose the view for a moment.
I wouldn't judge you if you chose to overtake me in a scenario like this, not at all. But it would make me uneasy doing it myself.Same story with straight roads with lots of crests ... often you can see it's all clear, but it still feels sketchy to me, personally.
You have to know the limits of your car and be able to use them to the maximum knowing you are 100 percent safe. If you dont feel comfortable dont take the risk. There may be a vehicle coming from the opposite direction quickly. Fast cars are much safer than slow cars. I never read the thread so may be completely wrong. Spending far too much time in beer gardens in hot countries.
Interesting that I never felt I took any risk overtaking, but as soon as I had kids I found myself choosing not to overtake in more situtions.
Like it or not all overtakes carry risk an additional level of risk to not bothering and maintaining a safe distance.
I never forget doing a nice overtake in a 2.8 capri level with the last car the rev limiter cut in 500 rpm early (Pattern Rotor arm)Instantly sending the engine coughing and spluttering.
Like it or not all overtakes carry risk an additional level of risk to not bothering and maintaining a safe distance.
I never forget doing a nice overtake in a 2.8 capri level with the last car the rev limiter cut in 500 rpm early (Pattern Rotor arm)Instantly sending the engine coughing and spluttering.
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