situation with a driver who refuses to move over.

[anonymous-user]

heading out of oxford one evening along the a40 eastbound (the stretch just before the m40), it's a two lane road at national speed limit. It's raining lightly and it's dark but nothing dangerous. There are a few cars in lane 1, traveling approx 55mph and I am in lane 2 at 70mph (I feel it was perfectly safe to do so). Ahead of me is a lone car in lane 2, traveling at 60mph. I slow down to match his speed, not driving too close and wait til he is clear of the current batch of traffic in lane 1, so he can allow me past. We clear the traffic, but he is still in lane 2. So I put my (right turn) indicators on to show I wish to overtake. He stays there and we catch up with another stream of traffic in lane 1. I think fine, I will wait until we have cleared that lot. I leave my indicators on. We clear the traffic in lane 1 again and still he stays in lane 2 - there's loads of space for him to move over. So I flash my lights at him. No response. A bit fed up at this point, I move into lane 1 and swiftly undertake him. Looking in my rear view mirror I can see he stays in lane 2 for the rest of the time I can see him. Obviously oblivious.

So - my question, I know undertaking is not correct. However, it seemed the best solution, I didn't want to keep sitting behind him flashing my lights to no avail and had no desire to trundle along at 60. What would you have done?

[Terminator X]

Gentle nudge to the rear of his car sending him spinning off to reflect on the error of his ways undertake is all you can do with the OLH's.

TX.

[ScoobyChris]

photoangell said:

So - my question, I know undertaking is not correct. However, it seemed the best solution, I didn't want to keep sitting behind him flashing my lights to no avail and had no desire to trundle along at 60. What would you have done?

Similar but I wouldn't have bothered with the indicators... just be sure that if you do opt to overtake using lane 1 that he's not likely to "wake up" when he realises he's in the wrong lane.

Chris

[mrmr96]

I do a lot of miles each year, and my patience with this kind of driver is at a low ebb.
So I tend to pass them on the left. Then carry on in the left lane until I reach some more traffic, then pull into lane 2 to pass that.

Causes both of us less stress in general. I don't see it as being too bad really, as it's not like I'm swerving between lanes and cutting them up to get back into lane 2. Rather I'm keeping left when not overtaking, and there happens to be a jerk in the outside lane which is nothing to do with me.

You do, of course, have to have your wits about you and be sure they don't swing into you if they suddenly decide to move over. For this reason I tend to do as the OP did, in so far as I'll wait behind them for a while after a suitable "pull over" spot has appeared - to see whether they do pull over or not.

I've come to the conclusion that some people just like to drive in the outside lane, no matter what. So I let them.

[SK425]

ScoobyChris said:

photoangell said:

So - my question, I know undertaking is not correct. However, it seemed the best solution, I didn't want to keep sitting behind him flashing my lights to no avail and had no desire to trundle along at 60. What would you have done?

Similar but I wouldn't have bothered with the indicators... just be sure that if you do opt to overtake using lane 1 that he's not likely to "wake up" when he realises he's in the wrong lane.

Agreed. I wouldn't do the indicators bit either.

Step 1 is a headlamp flash (from a nice comfortable following distance so it's less likely to be mistaken for aggression), aiming to give you some confidence that whatever factors he's using to decide which lane to drive in, he's not unaware of your presence. If, on becoming aware of you, he chooses to change lane then you can thank him as you pass. If after, say, a couple of headlamp flashes (that's the most I'd do I think) he's still in lane then either he's too oblivious to notice you, or he is aware of you and happy with his choice of lane. Either way, at that point, your options are to stay behind or look for a safe opportunity to pass on the left.

[_Neal_]

SK425 said:

Agreed. I wouldn't do the indicators bit either.

Step 1 is a headlamp flash (from a nice comfortable following distance so it's less likely to be mistaken for aggression), aiming to give you some confidence that whatever factors he's using to decide which lane to drive in, he's not unaware of your presence. If, on becoming aware of you, he chooses to change lane then you can thank him as you pass. If after, say, a couple of headlamp flashes (that's the most I'd do I think) he's still in lane then either he's too oblivious to notice you, or he is aware of you and happy with his choice of lane. Either way, at that point, your options are to stay behind or look for a safe opportunity to pass on the left.

I think the right hand indicator is a good call - in my experience at least, people react more positively to indicators than to headlight flashes. Seems more "polite" somehow.

[DuncanDisorderly]

photoangell said:

heading out of oxford one evening along the a40 eastbound (the stretch just before the m40), it's a two lane road at national speed limit. It's raining lightly and it's dark but nothing dangerous. There are a few cars in lane 1, traveling approx 55mph and I am in lane 2 at 70mph (I feel it was perfectly safe to do so). Ahead of me is a lone car in lane 2, traveling at 60mph. I slow down to match his speed, not driving too close and wait til he is clear of the current batch of traffic in lane 1, so he can allow me past. We clear the traffic, but he is still in lane 2. So I put my (right turn) indicators on to show I wish to overtake. He stays there and we catch up with another stream of traffic in lane 1. I think fine, I will wait until we have cleared that lot. I leave my indicators on. We clear the traffic in lane 1 again and still he stays in lane 2 - there's loads of space for him to move over. So I flash my lights at him. No response. A bit fed up at this point, I move into lane 1 and swiftly undertake him. Looking in my rear view mirror I can see he stays in lane 2 for the rest of the time I can see him. Obviously oblivious.

So - my question, I know undertaking is not correct. However, it seemed the best solution, I didn't want to keep sitting behind him flashing my lights to no avail and had no desire to trundle along at 60. What would you have done?

I will pass on the advice once given me by Paul Ripley during some advanced tuition when I asked him the same sort of question. His advice was to drive up to the car but maintain a safe distance. Do not drive in what may be seen as an aggressive manner, so no driving up close then dropping back a few times. Then when there is sufficient room for the car in front to pull back into the inside lane, and without changing the distance between your two cars, put your headlights on full beam for 4 seconds. Do not close the gap during this and do not flash the headlights. If the driver in front ignores this just maintain the safe distance between your two cars, until another opportunity to pull back into the inside lane presents itself. Then again put headlights on full beam for 4 seconds, but do not close up or flash the headlights.
If it doesn't work the second time his advice was to pull into the inside lane and stop for a coffee at the next available opportunity as the driver in front isn't going anywhere. The key was not to flash the headlights or close the gap between the cars. All this may be seen as aggressive by the car in front.
From my personal experience this has only failed once, and my driving with Paul Ripley was about 20 years ago. I will admit to finding it very difficult to leave the headlights on for 4 seconds when I first tried it though. Seemed an awfully long time, but I cant argue with the results.

[Vladimir]

This:

[davepoth]

Passing in lane one for me. I usually ensure a hefty speed differential just in case though.

[crisisjez]

DuncanDisorderly said:

I will pass on the advice once given me by Paul Ripley during some advanced tuition when I asked him the same sort of question. His advice was to drive up to the car but maintain a safe distance. Do not drive in what may be seen as an aggressive manner, so no driving up close then dropping back a few times. Then when there is sufficient room for the car in front to pull back into the inside lane, and without changing the distance between your two cars, put your headlights on full beam for 4 seconds. Do not close the gap during this and do not flash the headlights. If the driver in front ignores this just maintain the safe distance between your two cars, until another opportunity to pull back into the inside lane presents itself. Then again put headlights on full beam for 4 seconds, but do not close up or flash the headlights.
If it doesn't work the second time his advice was to pull into the inside lane and stop for a coffee at the next available opportunity as the driver in front isn't going anywhere. The key was not to flash the headlights or close the gap between the cars. All this may be seen as aggressive by the car in front.
From my personal experience this has only failed once, and my driving with Paul Ripley was about 20 years ago. I will admit to finding it very difficult to leave the headlights on for 4 seconds when I first tried it though. Seemed an awfully long time, but I cant argue with the results.

Main beam on for 4 seconds
Thats not very considerate of other road users travelling in the opposite direction.
I would argue that maintaining your pace and passing in L1 (provided you don't move accross to overtake cars ahead in L1 immediately) is within the spirit of the HC. (268)

Edited by crisisjez on Tuesday 26th March 00:14

[R0G]

It's not illegal to do what you did as long as it was done safely

I would have done the same - passed on the nearside

[MC Bodge]

R0G said:

It's not illegal to do what you did as long as it was done safely

I would have done the same - passed on the nearside

Me too, quickly and looking out for the other car beginning to move to the nearside.

[simoid]

I don't think it makes much difference what lights you utilise to make someone aware of your presence and wish to pass.

Indicator/flash/prolonged beam may all seem "impatient" to different people.

In the situation described, where it's obvious (as obvious as can be, since they've passed up opportunities to return to the left) that the car in front is staying in the outside lane I'll:

1. Give them a little bit extra distance when they're overtaking, allowing me to
2. Close the gap once they've passed the traffic so hopefully they notice my wee car getting larger in their mirror and move over
3. Give a quick flash of the lights, and stick my indicator on, to guage reaction (i.e. hopefully a look in the mirrors, then a move to the nearside). If they still remain in the outside lane with room to move over, I'll
4. Move nearside and flash my lights, check for any reaction. If no lane movement, I'll
5. Proceed as normal drivers do: returning to left after overtaking - as clearly this person intends to make a right turn ahead

If someone moves over after I've used any lights, I'll make sure they're aware of my gratitude with a raised hand/hazard flash.

[Vladimir]

What are these "indicators" you speak of?

My BMW doesn't seem to have any... ;-)

[gforceg]

simoid said:

I don't think it makes much difference what lights you utilise to make someone aware of your presence and wish to pass.

Indicator/flash/prolonged beam may all seem "impatient" to different people.

In the situation described, where it's obvious (as obvious as can be, since they've passed up opportunities to return to the left) that the car in front is staying in the outside lane I'll:

1. Give them a little bit extra distance when they're overtaking, allowing me to
2. Close the gap once they've passed the traffic so hopefully they notice my wee car getting larger in their mirror and move over
3. Give a quick flash of the lights, and stick my indicator on, to guage reaction (i.e. hopefully a look in the mirrors, then a move to the nearside). If they still remain in the outside lane with room to move over, I'll
4. Move nearside and flash my lights, check for any reaction. If no lane movement, I'll
5. Proceed as normal drivers do: returning to left after overtaking - as clearly this person intends to make a right turn ahead

If someone moves over after I've used any lights, I'll make sure they're aware of my gratitude with a raised hand/hazard flash.

I like all of that except the hazard flash to say thank you. So wrong.

[simoid]

gforceg said:

I like all of that except the hazard flash to say thank you. So wrong.

Just the once, and only if it's obviously not a "THERE'S A HAZARD IN FRONT OF ME!" signal

Hopefully a show of gratitude will reinforce their positive experience of getting the fk out of my way.

[gforceg]

simoid said:

Just the once, and only if it's obviously not a "THERE'S A HAZARD IN FRONT OF ME!" signal

Hopefully a show of gratitude will reinforce their positive experience of getting the fk out of my way.

Absolutely. Manners cost nothing. Nothing worse than doing someone a good turn and they just breeze past like a Presidential convoy!

[anonymous-user]

Vladimir said:

What are these "indicators" you speak of?

My BMW doesn't seem to have any... ;-)

Ha! - possibly they stopped fitting them 10 years ago - they certainly work on my old BMW E38 - maybe now it's just part of the "drivers who actually give a toss" package.



Thanks for all the suggestions. I should have noted that this stretch of road did not have a hard shoulder, so while i did pass on the left, it perhaps wasn't the safest situation to do so. Next time, I am going to go for a longer flash of full beams (maybe not quite 4 seconds though) and see what happens....

[irocfan]

oh dear Lord this really boils my piss... I've been on a slip road and seen cars in front of me get onto the m-way and then proceed AT-fkING-ONCE to the middle lane and then just sit there like gormless fkwits @ 65 with an empty inside lane

[Vladimir]

irocfan said:

oh dear Lord this really boils my piss... I've been on a slip road and seen cars in front of me get onto the m-way and then proceed AT-fkING-ONCE to the middle lane and then just sit there like gormless fkwits @ 65 with an empty inside lane

First rule of IAM driving - keep calm. And carry on.