How can I stop" throwing" a car around bends?
Discussion
I have always driven cars with no or little power steering, and have managed the bends perfectly (to me anyway as I like that change of balance feeling). I am now driving a car with sensitive power steering and I cannot get the right balance, hence my driving around bends has gone to pot! My husband has always complained that I "throw" cars around bends. I was taught to accelerate around bends and never had a problem before. I am hoping that someone on here can help me, as firstly I do not feel in control, and secondly he is now driving through bends faster than me and that is not acceptable!
green944 said:
I have always driven cars with no or little power steering, and have managed the bends perfectly (to me anyway as I like that change of balance feeling). I am now driving a car with sensitive power steering and I cannot get the right balance, hence my driving around bends has gone to pot! My husband has always complained that I "throw" cars around bends. I was taught to accelerate around bends and never had a problem before. I am hoping that someone on here can help me, as firstly I do not feel in control, and secondly he is now driving through bends faster than me and that is not acceptable!
A little advice, never accelerate into a bend, only out of it, also slow the approach into a bend. It`s all about grip and traction, a violent change in direction tends to lose both, I hope this helps 
green944 said:
I have always driven cars with no or little power steering, and have managed the bends perfectly (to me anyway as I like that change of balance feeling). I am now driving a car with sensitive power steering and I cannot get the right balance, hence my driving around bends has gone to pot! My husband has always complained that I "throw" cars around bends. I was taught to accelerate around bends and never had a problem before. I am hoping that someone on here can help me, as firstly I do not feel in control, and secondly he is now driving through bends faster than me and that is not acceptable!
Without power steering it can be very advantageous to over slow before going into a bend and then power up through the bend because it makes the steering easier to handleWith power staeering you need to start all over again and forget the former way
Understanding the limit point and how it works will help a lot - perhaps taking a free drive out with an advanced driving observer/tutor will help with that as it needs to be done physically - theory is not a lot of help
green944 said:
I have always driven cars with no or little power steering, and have managed the bends perfectly (to me anyway as I like that change of balance feeling). I am now driving a car with sensitive power steering and I cannot get the right balance, hence my driving around bends has gone to pot! My husband has always complained that I "throw" cars around bends. I was taught to accelerate around bends and never had a problem before. I am hoping that someone on here can help me, as firstly I do not feel in control, and secondly he is now driving through bends faster than me and that is not acceptable!
1) Decent hand position on the wheel - no one handed efforts2) Think smooth deliberate and progressive. Remove 'fast' to begin with - once the smoothness is back, add in the speed
3) Relax. Just drive it more. It takes a little time for your 'muscle memory' to re-calibrate.
I'm assuming you mean get the braking done before the bend and hold a light throttle opening after turn in, then accelerate out of the corner, which is fine. Shouldn't generally be trailing brakes in (IMHO).
Thanks guys, some interesting comments. Having driven for over 30 years, it seems as though I have some bad habits and maybe need help from an instructor . Will go out tomorrow and try some of your suggestions.I will accelerate gently into and through the bends. We have a lovely winding road close by that I will practise on. May get flamed on the "knob forum" though, being the knob in the Jag going 30 on a NSL road!
I was taught "limit points" on my advanced course- Basically slowing at the entrance to the corner until the view starts to expand and then staying at that speed. I never quite saw how that could adapt to different cars, etc with obviously different cornering abilities. Seems to work alright when properly applied though.
green944 said:
Thanks guys, some interesting comments. Having driven for over 30 years, it seems as though I have some bad habits and maybe need help from an instructor . Will go out tomorrow and try some of your suggestions.I will accelerate gently into and through the bends. We have a lovely winding road close by that I will practise on. May get flamed on the "knob forum" though, being the knob in the Jag going 30 on a NSL road!
Are you driving a much bigger and softer car than those you're used to? Sounds like your problem may actually be the weight transfer rather than the accelerator. If that's the case then you I reckon you need to think about setting the car up for the curve before you arrive at it, gradually increasing the lock rather than winding it on and off quickly. davepoth said:
Are you driving a much bigger and softer car than those you're used to? Sounds like your problem may actually be the weight transfer rather than the accelerator. If that's the case then you I reckon you need to think about setting the car up for the curve before you arrive at it, gradually increasing the lock rather than winding it on and off quickly.
In the last year have had an old Saab,old Jeep, Porsche 928,a 924,a 944, BMW E30 etc, so I do not think it is the size. But it could be that the Jaguar S type is softer, has more knobs and does strange things like locking the doors when I drive off. I never realized modern cars were so weird! Thanks, you make a lot of sense, will try tomorrow.green944 said:
My husband has always complained that I "throw" cars around bends.
That sometimes means that you jerk the steering wheel - many people do this habitually, and I think it may be because they like the feeling it gives.One exercise you could try is holding the steering wheel with just the thumb and first finger of each hand, with the rim between the pads of your thumb and finger rather than either of them being hooked around. The aim here is to learn delicacy - you don't need to hold tightly to the steering wheel.
Another possibility is that you steer late, which means you'd be making up for not starting to steer early enough. If you start to steer early then you don't need to move the steering wheel quickly, and you probably won't need to move the steering wheel as much.
edited to add: most of what I've prattled on about below has been posted above! I just thought I'd put it all together and add a few other thoughts.
First of all, this accelerating in bends thing...
The key issue with cornering is balance. If you can share the grip out evenly between front and rear then it not only allows you to reach a higher speed on a race track, but on the public road at lower speeds your car will end up further from 'the limit' because you're sharing the grip out (I could write pages on that and how mis-leading the term 'the limit' is, but let's just call it 'the limit' for now). I would contest that it is inherently dangerous to drive a car that's leaning more one way than the other, like carrying a ladder with one end lower than the other for instance; if you trip or slip you're more likely to clang the ladder on the ground. For the entire 'central' portion of the bend, when your steering is still (if not, it should be!!), then the throttle should also be still with the car maintaining a steady speed. In this steady state the car is balanced - imagine a never ending roundabout that you're lapping - the driver would be motionless inside the car. If you accelerated at this point then the car will tend towards understeer and start to run wider in the turn, so whoever taught the OP that is, I'm afraid to say, totally wrong. Conversely, if you decelerate then the car will tuck in more. Maintain a steady speed and the car will remain balanced.
Obviously you need to get to and from this central portion of the turn, and the key rule there is again balance, but this time more in a mathematical sense: only ever add something if you take something else away; by doing that the car will remain happy. On the way out of the turn for example, as you add acceleration, then you should take away the steering by an equal amount, so the car is turning on a smaller radius compatible with the new speed. On the way into the turn, one should exchange brakes for steering in a similarly cohesive manner (as mentoned in the other post above).
The end result would be that if you had a dish on the bonnet with a snooker ball in it, the ball would gently move to the front edge as you braked, then arc round to the side as you cornered, stay there and then arc round to the back as you accelerate out again. The key is smoothness - imagine you're trying not to slop a drink for example. If you stop braking before you turn, or stop turning before you accelerate (like you see a lot of the celeb drivers on Top Gear doing - especially the latter), then your car and its tyres will react like the surface of the drink - chucked this way and that it won't be happy at all.
Another good analogy to all of the above is to watch a downhill slalom skier in action. The same physics is in action - in fact both skiing and motor racing are both known as 'carving sports' for this reason.
Secondly, the throwing the car around bends thing: perhaps try a more gentle grip on the steering wheel - you should guide the car with a light touch, not grab it by the scruff of the neck. If you're gentle with a car, work with it (not against it) and coax it everywhere (rather than command it), you will ultimately generate a higher limit of adhesion (for reasons I can go into if you like) - this means on the road you're safer because the limit is then further away, and of course on the track you'll be faster because you've created a higher limit. With a lighter grip on the wheel, you will also be sensitive to any steering feedback that this nasty new ePAS setup gives you!
As a footnote, this whole issue of balance is why most people keen on driving tend to prefer cars with their major masses balanced out, so they are inherently balanced to start with. Front engined front wheel drive cars, such as some Audis, Vauxhalls, Fords, Hondas etc may be cheap to build and offer good cabin space, but with the engine sideways up front with diff, gearbox and driveshafts all along with it, it's like pushing a shopping trolley with a 24 pack of beer right up the front. With a car such as a Caterham, BMW, Mercedes etc, the driving experience is so much more relaxed because of their inherent balance to start with. In this sense, the most prominent thing about RWD is not which end gets the drive at all, it's the more distributed layout that it promotes.
First of all, this accelerating in bends thing...
The key issue with cornering is balance. If you can share the grip out evenly between front and rear then it not only allows you to reach a higher speed on a race track, but on the public road at lower speeds your car will end up further from 'the limit' because you're sharing the grip out (I could write pages on that and how mis-leading the term 'the limit' is, but let's just call it 'the limit' for now). I would contest that it is inherently dangerous to drive a car that's leaning more one way than the other, like carrying a ladder with one end lower than the other for instance; if you trip or slip you're more likely to clang the ladder on the ground. For the entire 'central' portion of the bend, when your steering is still (if not, it should be!!), then the throttle should also be still with the car maintaining a steady speed. In this steady state the car is balanced - imagine a never ending roundabout that you're lapping - the driver would be motionless inside the car. If you accelerated at this point then the car will tend towards understeer and start to run wider in the turn, so whoever taught the OP that is, I'm afraid to say, totally wrong. Conversely, if you decelerate then the car will tuck in more. Maintain a steady speed and the car will remain balanced.
Obviously you need to get to and from this central portion of the turn, and the key rule there is again balance, but this time more in a mathematical sense: only ever add something if you take something else away; by doing that the car will remain happy. On the way out of the turn for example, as you add acceleration, then you should take away the steering by an equal amount, so the car is turning on a smaller radius compatible with the new speed. On the way into the turn, one should exchange brakes for steering in a similarly cohesive manner (as mentoned in the other post above).
The end result would be that if you had a dish on the bonnet with a snooker ball in it, the ball would gently move to the front edge as you braked, then arc round to the side as you cornered, stay there and then arc round to the back as you accelerate out again. The key is smoothness - imagine you're trying not to slop a drink for example. If you stop braking before you turn, or stop turning before you accelerate (like you see a lot of the celeb drivers on Top Gear doing - especially the latter), then your car and its tyres will react like the surface of the drink - chucked this way and that it won't be happy at all.
Another good analogy to all of the above is to watch a downhill slalom skier in action. The same physics is in action - in fact both skiing and motor racing are both known as 'carving sports' for this reason.
Secondly, the throwing the car around bends thing: perhaps try a more gentle grip on the steering wheel - you should guide the car with a light touch, not grab it by the scruff of the neck. If you're gentle with a car, work with it (not against it) and coax it everywhere (rather than command it), you will ultimately generate a higher limit of adhesion (for reasons I can go into if you like) - this means on the road you're safer because the limit is then further away, and of course on the track you'll be faster because you've created a higher limit. With a lighter grip on the wheel, you will also be sensitive to any steering feedback that this nasty new ePAS setup gives you!
As a footnote, this whole issue of balance is why most people keen on driving tend to prefer cars with their major masses balanced out, so they are inherently balanced to start with. Front engined front wheel drive cars, such as some Audis, Vauxhalls, Fords, Hondas etc may be cheap to build and offer good cabin space, but with the engine sideways up front with diff, gearbox and driveshafts all along with it, it's like pushing a shopping trolley with a 24 pack of beer right up the front. With a car such as a Caterham, BMW, Mercedes etc, the driving experience is so much more relaxed because of their inherent balance to start with. In this sense, the most prominent thing about RWD is not which end gets the drive at all, it's the more distributed layout that it promotes.
RobM77 said:
The end result would be that if you had a dish on the bonnet with a snooker ball in it, the ball would gently move to the front edge as you braked, then arc round to the side as you cornered, stay there and then arc round to the back as you accelerate out again.
Jackie Stewart demonstrated this many times using a ping pong ball in a saucer.It looks simple but it takes a lot of practice to become proficient at keeping it there every time.
Bear in mind if you do that the main emphasis for advanced road driving is on the limit of vision not the limit of grip: whilst smoothness is important and not skidding is a core part of good driving, the greatest threat to the road driver comes from the unseen hazard. Being able to cope with that is partly about being in good control (smoothness, limit of grip), but it mostly about managing speed and position in relation to vision.
Fortunately the techniques in achieving these objectives are mostly complementary but urge towards subtley different goals.
Fortunately the techniques in achieving these objectives are mostly complementary but urge towards subtley different goals.
I've always enjoyed driving 'enthusiastically' (furiously?) This was fine when I was single and often travelling alone or with like-minded(to varying degrees) mates.
When I met my future wife (who is prone to car sickness) it became quickly apparent that driving "fast" wasn't going to be popular....
This prompted me into learning more about driving technique. I then got into riding motorbikes and trying to do it well, which also changed my perspective somewhat.
I'm now far, far smoother than I was in the past. This allows me drive along at a reasonable lick whilst keeping the family happy, almost all of the time ...Alpine hairpins and the road out of Denbigh can be a challenge. Driving solo briskly with smoothness is also very satisfying.
My basic hints:
Hold the wheel lightly, don't grasp it
Begin (and end) turning the steering wheel gently.
Try to steer smoothly, not in a series of 'jerks'
Wait for the car to respond to the steering to avoid steering too much.
Look ahead to avoid having to brake hard
Always squeeze the brakes on and ease them off smoothly
Trail the brakes slightly if required
Heel-toe'ing on the approach to bends can also aid smoothness
Squeeze the throttle pedal smoothly, don't stamp on it or lift off sharply.
Wind the steering off gently and smoothly.
When I met my future wife (who is prone to car sickness) it became quickly apparent that driving "fast" wasn't going to be popular....
This prompted me into learning more about driving technique. I then got into riding motorbikes and trying to do it well, which also changed my perspective somewhat.
I'm now far, far smoother than I was in the past. This allows me drive along at a reasonable lick whilst keeping the family happy, almost all of the time ...Alpine hairpins and the road out of Denbigh can be a challenge. Driving solo briskly with smoothness is also very satisfying.
My basic hints:
Hold the wheel lightly, don't grasp it
Begin (and end) turning the steering wheel gently.
Try to steer smoothly, not in a series of 'jerks'
Wait for the car to respond to the steering to avoid steering too much.
Look ahead to avoid having to brake hard
Always squeeze the brakes on and ease them off smoothly
Trail the brakes slightly if required
Heel-toe'ing on the approach to bends can also aid smoothness
Squeeze the throttle pedal smoothly, don't stamp on it or lift off sharply.
Wind the steering off gently and smoothly.
Edited by MC Bodge on Friday 1st February 17:15
I have coached many drivers who have a similar trait. usually they seem to lead with an over the top pull on the steering wheel i.e. right hand pulls across and down from about eleven o'clock to initiate a right hand turn. To make it easier to be less harsh, initiate the turn by pushing up with the left hand. The act of changing hands to begin retraining can often help to change this habit.
Hope this helps
Hope this helps
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