Who has right of way?

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Discussion

SpeedMattersNot

Original Poster:

4,506 posts

202 months

Sunday 16th December 2012
quotequote all
Take a look at this picture.



The right arrow is where I intend to go, into the Aldi car park. As I am slowing down and indicating to turn right, sometimes a car will exit Tesco like the blue arrow, at the point where I am just about to start turning and I then have to stop.

It doesn't happen often, but I don't know who has the right of way. Is it right that I stop? Should they wait until I've made my turn? Or is it just one of those ambiguous junctions...?

Thanks for any help.

7db

6,058 posts

236 months

Sunday 16th December 2012
quotequote all
Given the proximity of the junctions, I would expect the blue route to yield to the red route.

Complications might arise when there is other oncoming traffic which the red vehicle stops for and the blue vehicle slots into that traffic.

In general the answer to priority questions is that whomever is established on a road or in a lane has the right to remain established.

With just two vehicles, I find it hard to understand how conflict can arise -- the blue vehicle should wait for the red one to commit to the turn at which point it's going to be hard to get out of the side junction and get into a position of conflict.

Have you tried not indicating?

johnao

672 posts

249 months

Sunday 16th December 2012
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7db said:
Have you tried not indicating?
I like this answer. Another example of why we should avoid automatic signalling.

SpeedMattersNot

Original Poster:

4,506 posts

202 months

Sunday 16th December 2012
quotequote all
On the occasions it has happened with just me on the road and a car exiting the Tesco car-park I do feel a bit miffed they've pulled out in front of me causing me to stop entering the car-park.

I wouldn't want to risk not indicating...but it had crossed my mind.

Cheers

GrumpyTwig

3,354 posts

163 months

Sunday 16th December 2012
quotequote all
I'd expect to have to stop if the blue arrowed car had joined the road already exactly the same as if it was an oncoming car, it's no different that it's just left a junction very nearby if it's over the dividing centre white broken lines on the main road it has right of way.

Complications might arise if you get people exiting the junction faster than they should but that's the fun of trying to predict other drivers.

whiskas

24 posts

170 months

Sunday 16th December 2012
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Looks pretty clear-cut due to the presence of Give Way lines- Red line has priority.

Ozzie Osmond

21,189 posts

252 months

Sunday 16th December 2012
quotequote all
whiskas said:
Looks pretty clear-cut due to the presence of Give Way lines- Red line has priority.
No way.

If the "blue" car had approached from the straight-on direction it would obviously have priority. The fact it's come out of a side-turning makes no difference.

Blue car has priority.

SpeedMattersNot

Original Poster:

4,506 posts

202 months

Sunday 16th December 2012
quotequote all
I think it depends how late they decide to pull out from the blue corner.

If I am nowhere near the red turn in point, I agree, but I've had it so that when they've seen I am definitely slowing down and seconds before turning they pull out and I've actually had to back out of turning at that exact point.

vonhosen

40,444 posts

223 months

Sunday 16th December 2012
quotequote all
I think blue will argue they were established on the road before you started to cross their path by turning in & to a degree they'd have to be in order for you to collide with them.

whiskas

24 posts

170 months

Sunday 16th December 2012
quotequote all
Ozzie Osmond said:
No way.

If the "blue" car had approached from the straight-on direction it would obviously have priority.
Yes as it would also be on the major road turning left

Ozzie Osmond said:
The fact it's come out of a side-turning makes no difference.

Blue car has priority.
It makes all the difference- you *do* know what the double-checked line markings at the junction mean don't you?

For the sake of argument if and only if the blue car has already pulled out before you approach the junction and started indicating then it has priority otherwise no. Of course sometimes you have to concede priority for a quieter life and to avoid an incident wink

barker22

1,037 posts

173 months

Sunday 16th December 2012
quotequote all
I think it would be poor form of blue to use your slowing and indicating as an opportunity to pull out, and then not let you go. However as others have said, blue has priority.

vonhosen

40,444 posts

223 months

Sunday 16th December 2012
quotequote all
whiskas said:
Ozzie Osmond said:
No way.

If the "blue" car had approached from the straight-on direction it would obviously have priority.
Yes as it would also be on the major road turning left

Ozzie Osmond said:
The fact it's come out of a side-turning makes no difference.

Blue car has priority.
It makes all the difference- you *do* know what the double-checked line markings at the junction mean don't you?

For the sake of argument if and only if the blue car has already pulled out before you approach the junction and started indicating then it has priority otherwise no. Of course sometimes you have to concede priority for a quieter life and to avoid an incident wink
The give way markings mean you should not enter if doing so would cause another to change speed or course in order to avoid a collision.

I don't personally see that his crossing the give way lines would cause another to change speed or course, because the (red) vehicle turning right would never reach the point where blue has crossed the give ways & entered the road. If red was already turning before blue entered, then there'd be no collision. I think red is going to have most problems with a collision because he is crossing the path of a vehicle that was established on the road before he commenced his crossing of that traffic.

SpeedMattersNot

Original Poster:

4,506 posts

202 months

Sunday 16th December 2012
quotequote all
I think you need to ask yourselves if you would exit from the blue side, if you saw the red line approaching you, slowing down whilst indicating.

Personally I wouldn't but I can understand why some people see it the way they do.

7db

6,058 posts

236 months

Sunday 16th December 2012
quotequote all
I think these junctions are so close that it might be hard to argue the blue vehicle is established in it's lane, rather than completing its manoeuvre. After all, you wouldn't try running that argument if this were a cross-roads or a staggered cross-roads.

But as von says -- there shouldn't be conflict if the blue car would have been in conflict with the red car if it went straight on: the red car will have made the turn and been on it's way...of course if there was room anyway for it to nip out...

Of course -- no matter the rights and wrongs -- if you do have to brake to avoid a collision then get on the brake and do what you must!

gavgavgav

1,559 posts

235 months

Sunday 16th December 2012
quotequote all
Ozzie Osmond said:
No way.

If the "blue" car had approached from the straight-on direction it would obviously have priority. The fact it's come out of a side-turning makes no difference.

Blue car has priority.
+1 this is so straight forward

robbyd

611 posts

181 months

Sunday 16th December 2012
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Surely have your eyes on the blue car and go when it's crossing the centre lines.

7db

6,058 posts

236 months

Sunday 16th December 2012
quotequote all
...or drive forward to where the blue car is waiting and perform a three point turn and drive back for the left-hander.

SpeedMattersNot

Original Poster:

4,506 posts

202 months

Sunday 16th December 2012
quotequote all
7db said:
...or drive forward to where the blue car is waiting and perform a three point turn and drive back for the left-hander.
My favourite lol.

The fact people try to turn into where the blue-arrow is coming from means this area of road wasn't very well designed!

9.3

1,146 posts

198 months

Tuesday 18th December 2012
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Or just use common sense...? Problem is with everybody who thinks/demands they have priority - just take the safest option.

7mike

3,077 posts

199 months

Tuesday 18th December 2012
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9.3 said:
- just take the safest option.
Shop at tescos getmecoat