Discussion
What do we think of this?
http://www.iam.org.uk/masters
My thoughts:
It's good that they're going for a common standard beyond a Skills for Life pass; they have done things before like the Special Assessment but always in a fragmented way.
It's not clear to me what the different focus is, or what more it offers beyond someone aiming for IAM F1RST during the Skills for Life course.
It's not clear to me whether it is a one-off, i.e. pass and you're done forever, unlike RoSPA which is periodically re-tested.
Not that I do AD for this, but it's not clear to me whether there are any further benefits (e.g. extra Surety premium reduction).
It is very expensive if you've already done SfL, even just for test.
I'm not encouraged to do it. If we're talking that magnitude in price, or that level of refinement in my driving, I'd be looking to RoSPA Gold (cheaper) or HPC (more obvious benefits)
http://www.iam.org.uk/masters
My thoughts:
It's good that they're going for a common standard beyond a Skills for Life pass; they have done things before like the Special Assessment but always in a fragmented way.
It's not clear to me what the different focus is, or what more it offers beyond someone aiming for IAM F1RST during the Skills for Life course.
It's not clear to me whether it is a one-off, i.e. pass and you're done forever, unlike RoSPA which is periodically re-tested.
Not that I do AD for this, but it's not clear to me whether there are any further benefits (e.g. extra Surety premium reduction).
It is very expensive if you've already done SfL, even just for test.
I'm not encouraged to do it. If we're talking that magnitude in price, or that level of refinement in my driving, I'd be looking to RoSPA Gold (cheaper) or HPC (more obvious benefits)
A little more info for you below;
Hunt, P (2012) 'IAM MASTERS TEST'', The Link, November 2012: p28
IMHO £129 / £159 for a test that lasts less that 2 hours looks a bit steep, and unless you're intent on getting the certificate, that amount could be far better spent elsewhere in the driver training arena (such as those you've eluded to). Those who pay twice that price for 'mentoring', I belive, will get even worse value for money, as (as I understand it) the 'mentors' will only be qualified by the fact they're passed the Masters assessment themselves. These mentors, I feel, will be the only ones who get real benefit from the programme, in the shape of a free Masters test.
Hunt, P (2012) 'IAM MASTERS TEST'', The Link, November 2012: p28
IMHO £129 / £159 for a test that lasts less that 2 hours looks a bit steep, and unless you're intent on getting the certificate, that amount could be far better spent elsewhere in the driver training arena (such as those you've eluded to). Those who pay twice that price for 'mentoring', I belive, will get even worse value for money, as (as I understand it) the 'mentors' will only be qualified by the fact they're passed the Masters assessment themselves. These mentors, I feel, will be the only ones who get real benefit from the programme, in the shape of a free Masters test.
Given that the £129 for a test covers the cost of administering and promoting the scheme and presumably 3-4 hours of examiner time, it seems reasonable value.
The HPC course is more than three times the cost, but they're different things so there's limited value in comparing them.
Synchromesh said:
Those who pay twice that price for 'mentoring', I belive, will get even worse value for money, as (as I understand it) the 'mentors' will only be qualified by the fact they're passed the Masters assessment themselves. These mentors, I feel, will be the only ones who get real benefit from the programme, in the shape of a free Masters test.
My understanding is that the mentors will have passed the test at the higher level, and presumably are also selected based on their ability to help / guide / advise to that level. If you can suggest another formal way of getting 10-12 (or more?) hours of coaching time for less money then I'd be interested to know about it.trashbat said:
If we're talking that magnitude in price, or that level of refinement in my driving, I'd be looking to RoSPA Gold (cheaper) or HPC (more obvious benefits)
Based on my Special Assessment experience, the standard will be higher than required for a RoSPA Gold pass (which is roughly equivalent to an IAM F1rst).The HPC course is more than three times the cost, but they're different things so there's limited value in comparing them.
S. Gonzales Esq. said:
Given that the £129 for a test covers the cost of administering and promoting the scheme and presumably 3-4 hours of examiner time, it seems reasonable value.
I was considering it against other comparable offerings, such as using an independent driver trainer/coach. I don't how administering and promoting the scheme can warrant such a premium, or how that much extra time on top of the test time should be incurred by the examiner. Without wanting to come across too critical, as it is better than nothing, it sounds like one would be paying an "IAM tax".S. Gonzales Esq. said:
My understanding is that the mentors will have passed the test at the higher level, and presumably are also selected based on their ability to help / guide / advise to that level. If you can suggest another formal way of getting 10-12 (or more?) hours of coaching time for less money then I'd be interested to know about it.
In that case I misinterpreted what I read, and it is of course reassuring to know that the mentors will have been trained to a higher level. Even so, it's a lot of money for training from someone who is not a professional in the subject. I don't know what difference it makes that it's "formal", or if there is even a benefit from that (like there would be in the case of reduced insurance premiums with the standard IAM test), but I'd put forward ADUK mentoring as being able to provide training of a comparable quality.Synchromesh said:
A little more info for you below;
Hunt, P (2012) 'IAM MASTERS TEST'', The Link, November 2012: p28
IMHO £129 / £159 for a test that lasts less that 2 hours looks a bit steep, and unless you're intent on getting the certificate, that amount could be far better spent elsewhere in the driver training arena (such as those you've eluded to). Those who pay twice that price for 'mentoring', I belive, will get even worse value for money, as (as I understand it) the 'mentors' will only be qualified by the fact they're passed the Masters assessment themselves. These mentors, I feel, will be the only ones who get real benefit from the programme, in the shape of a free Masters test.
Comic SAAAAAAANNNNSSSS!Hunt, P (2012) 'IAM MASTERS TEST'', The Link, November 2012: p28
IMHO £129 / £159 for a test that lasts less that 2 hours looks a bit steep, and unless you're intent on getting the certificate, that amount could be far better spent elsewhere in the driver training arena (such as those you've eluded to). Those who pay twice that price for 'mentoring', I belive, will get even worse value for money, as (as I understand it) the 'mentors' will only be qualified by the fact they're passed the Masters assessment themselves. These mentors, I feel, will be the only ones who get real benefit from the programme, in the shape of a free Masters test.
Thanks for the info. Similarly I don't want to disparage movement in a good direction but I do agree with your sentiments.
Edited by trashbat on Wednesday 28th November 22:53
always thought the skill for life is a bit poor, I passed mine 8 years ago and then went on to an observer role. neither were a patch on the RoSPA test, much more involved. I got a clean sheet on my RoSPA at 18 and at the time was the second youngest person to ever achieve gold.
I would recommend the RoSPA test, plus you get an 18 (i think) page review of your assessed drive.
I would recommend the RoSPA test, plus you get an 18 (i think) page review of your assessed drive.
Fazt said:
always thought the skill for life is a bit poor, I passed mine 8 years ago and then went on to an observer role. neither were a patch on the RoSPA test, much more involved. I got a clean sheet on my RoSPA at 18 and at the time was the second youngest person to ever achieve gold.
I would recommend the RoSPA test, plus you get an 18 (i think) page review of your assessed drive.
The IAM have upped their game since then an now have F1RSTI would recommend the RoSPA test, plus you get an 18 (i think) page review of your assessed drive.
A written report is also available to those that request it
My friend James is writing about his experiences of Masters on the ADUK forum here:-
http://www.advanced-driving.co.uk/forum/viewtopic....
http://www.advanced-driving.co.uk/forum/viewtopic....
Thanks 7DB, I'll keep an eye on James' blog. Although it was very car-focused (e.g. steering and cornering technique) for a biker like me! Also, I've been told by an Examiner that "motorcycle Masters" has much more focus on overtaking skills.
I wonder what a "normal" driver's experience would be like for the Master's programme. James has done a lot of training, not least HPC, which many "regular" Masters candidates won't have.
I wonder what a "normal" driver's experience would be like for the Master's programme. James has done a lot of training, not least HPC, which many "regular" Masters candidates won't have.
Edited by SVS on Sunday 25th August 18:51
I think his post did go a little off-topic (what are the chances on an internet forum, eh?) but I'm sure it will be back with next post. Steering is a big part of showing-off finesse in car driving, but output rather than input, which is a big part of showing of dogma and pedantry: I suspect it is too in riding, but I have quite literally no idea as a non-rider.
I'd have thought the opportunities to demonstrate thoughtful accurate positioning are many more on a two-wheeler -- or indeed the opportunity to get it wrong!
I'd have thought the opportunities to demonstrate thoughtful accurate positioning are many more on a two-wheeler -- or indeed the opportunity to get it wrong!
Quite right about bike positioning.
Though I found overtaking to be even more critical, because there are so many more overtaking opportunities on the bike. I suspect IAM Masters would demand pin-sharp overtaking skills on the bike (probably even more than HPC entry level, I'd guess).
Though I found overtaking to be even more critical, because there are so many more overtaking opportunities on the bike. I suspect IAM Masters would demand pin-sharp overtaking skills on the bike (probably even more than HPC entry level, I'd guess).
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