Driving sympathetically towards gearbox and clutch.
Discussion
Ok, so I know the basics.
For setting off I get the car off the clutch asap, without excessive revs. This generally means I end up raising the revs by 100rpm or so to move off, and then accelerate away once the clutch is fully engaged. I'm not one for raising the revs to, say, 1500rpm and holding them there until the wheel speed matches the engine speed.
When changing gear I always rev match to reduce wear on the clutch.
Gearbox wise, I always make sure the car is stationery before selecting reverse, don't crunch gear, clutch pedal always down to the bottom etc...
But what other techniques or alterations are there that I can make to my driving to ensure minimal gearbox / clutch wear?
Cheers.
For setting off I get the car off the clutch asap, without excessive revs. This generally means I end up raising the revs by 100rpm or so to move off, and then accelerate away once the clutch is fully engaged. I'm not one for raising the revs to, say, 1500rpm and holding them there until the wheel speed matches the engine speed.
When changing gear I always rev match to reduce wear on the clutch.
Gearbox wise, I always make sure the car is stationery before selecting reverse, don't crunch gear, clutch pedal always down to the bottom etc...
But what other techniques or alterations are there that I can make to my driving to ensure minimal gearbox / clutch wear?
Cheers.
Well this may not be a purist view, but in the real world, none.
If you drive half sensibly, then it's all fine. To me the value of mechanical sympathy, or the gains to be made from it come from being sensible and not being overtly abusive.
Anything further might be interesting from a purity/anally retentive pov, but the law of diminishing returns has long since come into action.
Bert
If you drive half sensibly, then it's all fine. To me the value of mechanical sympathy, or the gains to be made from it come from being sensible and not being overtly abusive.
Anything further might be interesting from a purity/anally retentive pov, but the law of diminishing returns has long since come into action.
Bert
Clutches can wear out, but beyond avoiding doing repeated drag starts and trying to rev match (for smoothness) I don't think too much about it.
Assuming that you are driving a reasonably modern car without a monster torque output that is way beyond the original design of the gearbox, I wouldn't spend too long worrying about that either.
You could double-de-clutch every up- and down- shift as my grandad would have done with a Ford Model A 'box in the 1920s, but really, what is the point?
The car will probably be scrapped before the gearbox fails.
Assuming that you are driving a reasonably modern car without a monster torque output that is way beyond the original design of the gearbox, I wouldn't spend too long worrying about that either.
You could double-de-clutch every up- and down- shift as my grandad would have done with a Ford Model A 'box in the 1920s, but really, what is the point?
The car will probably be scrapped before the gearbox fails.
A bit of sympathy on the other clutch -- the syncromesh - I think is worthwhile. Making sure there's not a massive mismatch between layshaft and wheels before taking a gear can help. At one end avoiding long lingering changes and not applying too much pressure to the stick and at the other a nice little DDC blip to get things moving nicely.
The syncro rings only cost a quid to buy, but it's taking the gearbox out and apart that makes them expensive...
The syncro rings only cost a quid to buy, but it's taking the gearbox out and apart that makes them expensive...
SebastienClement said:
Ok, so I know the basics.
For setting off I get the car off the clutch asap, without excessive revs. This generally means I end up raising the revs by 100rpm or so to move off, and then accelerate away once the clutch is fully engaged. I'm not one for raising the revs to, say, 1500rpm and holding them there until the wheel speed matches the engine speed.
When changing gear I always rev match to reduce wear on the clutch.
Gearbox wise, I always make sure the car is stationery before selecting reverse, don't crunch gear, clutch pedal always down to the bottom etc...
But what other techniques or alterations are there that I can make to my driving to ensure minimal gearbox / clutch wear?
Cheers.
Double clutching will probably be the kindest way of all. At the least it forces you to shift more slowly which is always a good thing, but it usually means a properly synchronised shift up and down.For setting off I get the car off the clutch asap, without excessive revs. This generally means I end up raising the revs by 100rpm or so to move off, and then accelerate away once the clutch is fully engaged. I'm not one for raising the revs to, say, 1500rpm and holding them there until the wheel speed matches the engine speed.
When changing gear I always rev match to reduce wear on the clutch.
Gearbox wise, I always make sure the car is stationery before selecting reverse, don't crunch gear, clutch pedal always down to the bottom etc...
But what other techniques or alterations are there that I can make to my driving to ensure minimal gearbox / clutch wear?
Cheers.
davepoth said:
MC Bodge said:
But fairly academic, surely?
Not at all - fully possible on that gearbox, or indeed any manual gearbox, and it will eliminate any load on the synchros if done properly.ps. Double-declutching might wear the thrust bearing twice as quickly
MC Bodge said:
That's not what I meant. I can ddc in our cars, but either doing ddc or not doing ddc will have very little benefit in a normal road car. Match the revs, change gear smoothly and the gearbox will probably last for a very, very long time, whether you double-de-clutch or not.
ps. Double-declutching might wear the thrust bearing twice as quickly
Exactly, the law of diminishing returns has kicked in and convicted many many people.ps. Double-declutching might wear the thrust bearing twice as quickly
Interestingly, when I had a car that needed help with the syncros, I DDC'd. Then I found that the rev matching timing to get into gear wasn't right for engine rev matching IYSWIM. So I achieved one, but not the other.
Bert
I think the biggest killer of clutches has got to be holding the car on the clutch when waiting at a junction or at lights when on a gradient. Amazing how many people do this. I had to educate my girlfriend on what that does to a clutch (even showed her an old clutch plate, etc)... she took it well (think I bored her into submission) and she doesn't do it anymore.
Driven with mechanical sympathy, an OE clutch will usually last around 80k-100k miles, in my experience. Depends on how much stop-start driving the car is used, of course, since this determines how much the clutch gets used to get the car moving from rest (which is where the most wear occurs).
PS. I don't think rev-matching is necessary to prolong clutch life and double-declutching is certainly not required in any modern context.
Driven with mechanical sympathy, an OE clutch will usually last around 80k-100k miles, in my experience. Depends on how much stop-start driving the car is used, of course, since this determines how much the clutch gets used to get the car moving from rest (which is where the most wear occurs).
PS. I don't think rev-matching is necessary to prolong clutch life and double-declutching is certainly not required in any modern context.
Purity14 said:
I'm so unsympathetic, that under heavy braking sometimes ill drop a gear and drop the clutch for an additional reduction in speed.
When hooning this can result in the rear skipping out as the rear wheels match the speed of the engine.
Me too. Here I am on the way to the office:When hooning this can result in the rear skipping out as the rear wheels match the speed of the engine.
Purity14 said:
I'm so unsympathetic, that under heavy braking sometimes ill drop a gear and drop the clutch for an additional reduction in speed.
When hooning this can result in the rear skipping out as the rear wheels match the speed of the engine.
I'm unsympathetic and have crap car control. Whenever I do that I end up going backwards!When hooning this can result in the rear skipping out as the rear wheels match the speed of the engine.
Its a false economy IMHO
The savings you'll make will be more than countered by the fact you'll take 50% longer to get anywhere, and you'll also annoy other road users with excessively pedestrian acceleration. Adding just 100 revs to tickover to pull away must be sooooo sloooooow
My car has more than double the original bhp and an 80% increase in torque. I drive it hard, including the occasional track day and RWYB. Even doing this to it, a clutch will last me 50,000 miles and I only broke my first gearbox after a quarter of a million miles (full-bore launch at Santa Pod, with a treated track - tyres didn't spin, so the diff jumped out of the gearbox casing)
Under normal treatment, a clutch will last way over 100,000 miles and a gearbox (with occasional oil changes) will last far longer than the rest of the car. Excessive heat is the biggest killer of a clutch, so don't ride the clutch pedal, don't slip the clutch excessively when pulling away and don't hold the car on the clutch when on an incline.
The savings you'll make will be more than countered by the fact you'll take 50% longer to get anywhere, and you'll also annoy other road users with excessively pedestrian acceleration. Adding just 100 revs to tickover to pull away must be sooooo sloooooow
My car has more than double the original bhp and an 80% increase in torque. I drive it hard, including the occasional track day and RWYB. Even doing this to it, a clutch will last me 50,000 miles and I only broke my first gearbox after a quarter of a million miles (full-bore launch at Santa Pod, with a treated track - tyres didn't spin, so the diff jumped out of the gearbox casing)
Under normal treatment, a clutch will last way over 100,000 miles and a gearbox (with occasional oil changes) will last far longer than the rest of the car. Excessive heat is the biggest killer of a clutch, so don't ride the clutch pedal, don't slip the clutch excessively when pulling away and don't hold the car on the clutch when on an incline.
Nigel_O said:
Its a false economy IMHO
The savings you'll make will be more than countered by the fact you'll take 50% longer to get anywhere, and you'll also annoy other road users with excessively pedestrian acceleration. Adding just 100 revs to tickover to pull away must be sooooo sloooooow
My car has more than double the original bhp and an 80% increase in torque. I drive it hard, including the occasional track day and RWYB. Even doing this to it, a clutch will last me 50,000 miles and I only broke my first gearbox after a quarter of a million miles (full-bore launch at Santa Pod, with a treated track - tyres didn't spin, so the diff jumped out of the gearbox casing)
Under normal treatment, a clutch will last way over 100,000 miles and a gearbox (with occasional oil changes) will last far longer than the rest of the car. Excessive heat is the biggest killer of a clutch, so don't ride the clutch pedal, don't slip the clutch excessively when pulling away and don't hold the car on the clutch when on an incline.
Yup, I reckon my time is worth more to me than making a clutch last 150k miles instead of 50k miles. I know it will cost me more, but my time is worth it. I can always make more money, but my time on earth is finite.The savings you'll make will be more than countered by the fact you'll take 50% longer to get anywhere, and you'll also annoy other road users with excessively pedestrian acceleration. Adding just 100 revs to tickover to pull away must be sooooo sloooooow
My car has more than double the original bhp and an 80% increase in torque. I drive it hard, including the occasional track day and RWYB. Even doing this to it, a clutch will last me 50,000 miles and I only broke my first gearbox after a quarter of a million miles (full-bore launch at Santa Pod, with a treated track - tyres didn't spin, so the diff jumped out of the gearbox casing)
Under normal treatment, a clutch will last way over 100,000 miles and a gearbox (with occasional oil changes) will last far longer than the rest of the car. Excessive heat is the biggest killer of a clutch, so don't ride the clutch pedal, don't slip the clutch excessively when pulling away and don't hold the car on the clutch when on an incline.
Nigel_O said:
Its a false economy IMHO
The savings you'll make will be more than countered by the fact you'll take 50% longer to get anywhere, and you'll also annoy other road users with excessively pedestrian acceleration. Adding just 100 revs to tickover to pull away must be sooooo sloooooow
I think you've misunderstood me. You can be fully off the clutch pedal very quickly, and then accelerate as fast as you like. Being pedestrian is not something I'm usually accused of. I only add that 100 RPM on to get the car rolling, while you have to slip the clutch.The savings you'll make will be more than countered by the fact you'll take 50% longer to get anywhere, and you'll also annoy other road users with excessively pedestrian acceleration. Adding just 100 revs to tickover to pull away must be sooooo sloooooow
mrmr96 said:
Yup, I reckon my time is worth more to me than making a clutch last 150k miles instead of 50k miles. I know it will cost me more, but my time is worth it. I can always make more money, but my time on earth is finite.
But the finer arts of mechanical sympathy will not take the clutch from 50k to 150k miles anyway.Bert
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