Narrow Roads, positioning on bends
Discussion
Many of the rural (extra-urban greenbelt and beyond) roads near where I live are narrow-ish and flanked by hedgerows and trees.
On most of these roads 2 cars can pass -with care-, but there are rarely lines down the middle of the road.
I've noticed that on some of the blind bends, oncoming cars consistently drive quickly down the centre of the road.
I drive/ride with the expectation that this will happen, taking the bends in question slowly and keeping as far to the left as possible -as you might expect everyone to do.
On one bend in particular, which isn't as narrow as some, but can be fairly busy, I'll often be required to brake when a vehicle 'cuts' the bend and then swerves/brakes to avoid me. I assume that similar happens to other people, some of whom are possibly not being quite as cautious. I've no idea whether anybody ever collides.
I'm genuinely puzzled by the driving of these people: Why on earth would somebody wilfully(unnecessarily) drive around a blind bend whilst their driving seat is positioned on the 'wrong' side of the road? Are they surprised to find cars coming the opposite way?
I suspect that white lines down the middle of the road might help in this situation, but who knows?
On most of these roads 2 cars can pass -with care-, but there are rarely lines down the middle of the road.
I've noticed that on some of the blind bends, oncoming cars consistently drive quickly down the centre of the road.
I drive/ride with the expectation that this will happen, taking the bends in question slowly and keeping as far to the left as possible -as you might expect everyone to do.
On one bend in particular, which isn't as narrow as some, but can be fairly busy, I'll often be required to brake when a vehicle 'cuts' the bend and then swerves/brakes to avoid me. I assume that similar happens to other people, some of whom are possibly not being quite as cautious. I've no idea whether anybody ever collides.
I'm genuinely puzzled by the driving of these people: Why on earth would somebody wilfully(unnecessarily) drive around a blind bend whilst their driving seat is positioned on the 'wrong' side of the road? Are they surprised to find cars coming the opposite way?
I suspect that white lines down the middle of the road might help in this situation, but who knows?
Edited by MC Bodge on Wednesday 8th August 16:54
I drive down similar lanes in similar circumstances and notice similar behaviour. Most people cut right-handers and drive beyond their capabilities to cope with surprise. God knows what it's like to ride a horse down there. Terrifying, no doubt.
With all conflict I follow a similar plan:- promote conflict early to seek cooperation and then seek refuge. That means being obviously in conflict (move out) but being able to slow enough to get off the road if you need to. That's fine except in the circumstances you describe there is no time to seek cooperation so you're simply looking for refuge.
All I can suggest is being slow enough to stop in contact with the nearside verge if you need to -- as you might with a true single lane. That or closing your eyes and kissing your wing(-mirror) goodbye.
I actually choose to drive a different route some of the time to avoid the chance of meeting oncoming traffic if I don't fancy it / at night / in rain / etc.
With all conflict I follow a similar plan:- promote conflict early to seek cooperation and then seek refuge. That means being obviously in conflict (move out) but being able to slow enough to get off the road if you need to. That's fine except in the circumstances you describe there is no time to seek cooperation so you're simply looking for refuge.
All I can suggest is being slow enough to stop in contact with the nearside verge if you need to -- as you might with a true single lane. That or closing your eyes and kissing your wing(-mirror) goodbye.
I actually choose to drive a different route some of the time to avoid the chance of meeting oncoming traffic if I don't fancy it / at night / in rain / etc.
There was recently a similar thread on this topic in GG: Do you really believe in oncoming traffic?
From my experiences, centre lines seem to make little difference. I'm also noticing that more and more oncoming cars are hanging over the middle on straight sections as well, with plenty of room to their nearside as if unable to judge the width of their cars.
It's getting to the point where I'm no longer enjoying country lane driving as I used to; the thought that it's only a matter of time before one of these muppets leaves me with just too little room and I end up pinned between earth bank and 4x4 tank.
From my experiences, centre lines seem to make little difference. I'm also noticing that more and more oncoming cars are hanging over the middle on straight sections as well, with plenty of room to their nearside as if unable to judge the width of their cars.
It's getting to the point where I'm no longer enjoying country lane driving as I used to; the thought that it's only a matter of time before one of these muppets leaves me with just too little room and I end up pinned between earth bank and 4x4 tank.
I've been driven by a number of people who genuinely believe it's not possible to go around a corner without cutting it. They don't call it cutting the corner because that's just how you have to take them.
I can't quite work it out. But it appears to be they get towards the corner. They see where they want to be, (e.g. furthest visible point around the corner) and steer to drive directly towards it. The concept of an arch around the outside of the bend is both foreign to them and impossible for them to comprehend. I've even draw diagrams, and "driven" toy cars on one of those childs town rug things to try and explain it. No joy. Long argument though.
I can't quite work it out. But it appears to be they get towards the corner. They see where they want to be, (e.g. furthest visible point around the corner) and steer to drive directly towards it. The concept of an arch around the outside of the bend is both foreign to them and impossible for them to comprehend. I've even draw diagrams, and "driven" toy cars on one of those childs town rug things to try and explain it. No joy. Long argument though.
I tend to compensate by ensuring I'm as far over to the offside of narrow lanes, especially narrow left hand curves/bends so that 1. I can see as far ahead as possible and 2. I will be seen as soon as possible. For right-handers I do the opposite by hugging the nearside as much as possible. I try to drive so that I can react/stop in plenty of time in case one of the aforementioned muppets is approaching.
jagnet said:
I'm also noticing that more and more oncoming cars are hanging over the middle on straight sections as well, with plenty of room to their nearside as if unable to judge the width of their cars.
I hope you're not confusing driving down the middle of the road amongst traffic, with using the full of the road on long straight (empty) sections.I do the most of my miles on B roads, usually fast and straight. I position the car smack bang in the middle of the road (no center line) to keep out of potholes and save the tyres from stuff. When I get to a corner though, I keep tucked against the verge unless I can see the path ahead is clear. If so, I take the most flowing line. Most people tend to drive with one of two styles. Always in the center, never say die, it couldn't possibly happen to me. Or, cling to the verge like they're going to wiped out by every passing car, braking unnecessarily and generally impeding progress. I was of the latter group when I first started learning. But my dad and a better instructor put me right.
And as above, if you're worried about the possibility of oncoming idiots, a quick whack of the horn might help.
jagnet said:
From my experiences, centre lines seem to make little difference. I'm also noticing that more and more oncoming cars are hanging over the middle on straight sections as well, with plenty of room to their nearside as if unable to judge the width of their cars.
What happens if you mirror their positions and also hang over the centre line (at good distance) - making it clear that they are going to crash into you if no-one changes? Do they slow down and move to the nearside?7db said:
What happens if you mirror their positions and also hang over the centre line (at good distance) - making it clear that they are going to crash into you if no-one changes? Do they slow down and move to the nearside?
That tends to be my approach. I also use it when somebody is attempting to squeeze unnecessarily(rather than just easing off the gas a bit) through a narrow gap eg. between parked cars that I'm occupying with my bike or car.
7db said:
What happens if you mirror their positions and also hang over the centre line (at good distance) - making it clear that they are going to crash into you if no-one changes? Do they slow down and move to the nearside?
Have to say I haven't consciously tried that. I might give it a go next time I get chance to do so. If I haven't posted for a while you'll know it didn't work
I personally think that on these corners there should be a line of concrete bollards down the center of the road, that would make people think twice!
I quite often go round one of these corners and keep as far over to the left as possible, you never know whats going to be coming the other way.
Interestingly, its only people who are on the outside of the corner who seem to cut it, folk who would naturally be near the apex seem to stay on that side of the road.
A bit like people entering a corner on a "T" junction, Turning right in to a road and most people cut the corner, turning left and people follow line of sight.
My conclusion...
People are either amazingly stupid or lazy. I'm opting for stupid, even if your lazy you wouldn't drive at another car coming round a corner or out of a junction.
I quite often go round one of these corners and keep as far over to the left as possible, you never know whats going to be coming the other way.
Interestingly, its only people who are on the outside of the corner who seem to cut it, folk who would naturally be near the apex seem to stay on that side of the road.
A bit like people entering a corner on a "T" junction, Turning right in to a road and most people cut the corner, turning left and people follow line of sight.
My conclusion...
People are either amazingly stupid or lazy. I'm opting for stupid, even if your lazy you wouldn't drive at another car coming round a corner or out of a junction.
People generally, as pointed out, will drive straight towards the exit and when going faster will turn into bends very early (early apex). A combination of too fast for the conditions and 'laziness' of thought and action.
It is risky and nonsensical on a blind bend though.
Obviously they can't turn in beyond the 'apex'/kerb/hedge on a left turn.
It is risky and nonsensical on a blind bend though.
Obviously they can't turn in beyond the 'apex'/kerb/hedge on a left turn.
Edited by MC Bodge on Friday 10th August 11:33
7db said:
R0G said:
MOST CUTTING OF CORNERS/BENDS IS SIMPLY DOWN TO LAZY STEERING
I'd have said it was due to incorrect speed selection, rather than steering.I was then taught to go slower for accuracy even for well sighted corner. After I have improved my ability and confidence of car control, I can then slowly build back up the speed again.
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