Stopping on a slip way?

[thewidowmaker]

I was driving down a steep slip way recently, which has a 5ft wall leading down to carriageway level creating a blindspot until you are almost on the carriageway. Normally I would be picking up speed in view to join the carriageway with the flow of traffic. This slipway however requires you to make a slightly more cautious approach (for obvious reasons) and I tend to keep a speed of around 40mph until there is a clear view of the approaching traffic. There is sufficient space to bring my vehicle up to speed from this point, but as this is one of the busiest roads locally (and I'm often at this slip during rush hour traffic) and often both lanes are heavy with traffic, there isn't always available space to merge (stupid drivers almost bumper to bumper). Therefore I end up stopping before merging.

When I was learning to drive, I was taught how to use a slip way efficiently - but I was also told that if it is unsafe to join the traffic, then stop! After all, you do not have right of way when leaving a slip way.

My question is (stupid as it may sound); Would you guys stop, or would you match the speed of the traffic and just pull out into a likely gap (even if it doesn't look safe)?

Edit:

Sorry if this seems a petty argument; I work with Pannywagon. Our colleague passed her test recently after 2 years of trying. Today she asked the question above. She was advised by PW to NEVER stop on a slipway - regardless of it not being your right of way. She is now very confused, as her instructor has told her that if it is NOT safe to merge - then STOP!

I use the said slipway almost daily and it is not your average, it is blind all of the way down - until you are at traffic level. If this is the advice being given to newly qualified drivers, it is little wonder there are so many fatalities on these busy roads.

She was also told; ''you are a failure of a driver if you ever have the need to stop on a slip way''. Great advice.

Edited by thewidowmaker on Monday 30th January 16:39

[Pannywagon]

I would say, accelerate and merge into a safe gap at the speed the traffic is going. If the gap isn't there, stay off the gas until there is one and then accelerate to meet it as you merge.

Ideally you do not want to get to the end of the slip road and have to stop. Your forward planning has failed if this happens.

In fact - ETA I have been saying this all day. I haven't contrary to your opinion been saying barge into traffic regardless of the gaps. This is a rather childish way of sorting out an office debate. Welcome to the forum by the way.

Edited by Pannywagon on Monday 30th January 16:33

[thewidowmaker]

Pannywagon said:

I would say, accelerate and merge into a safe gap at the speed the traffic is going. If the gap isn't there, stay off the gas until there is one and then accelerate to meet it as you merge.

Ideally you do not want to get to the end of the slip road and have to stop. Your forward planning has failed if this happens.

Thanks for the reply. I'm fully aware (and capable) of how to merge into traffic from a slip way. My question was as to whether or not you would stop? This isn't an average slip that you are able to view oncoming traffic from on your way down. To say my planning has 'failed' if I need to stop sounds a little odd. I don't want to stop, but I definitely DO NOT want to cause an accident by joining for the hell of it.

[Nigel Worc's]

People will say what you describe can't happen, but it can and does.

Legally you stop, and become a hazard to those behind you and those you are seeking to join.

Common sense says trundle down the hard shoulder, if it is reasonable and safe (as well as possible) and join from there, but that of course is illegal.

On the rare occasions I find myself in that position, it is what I choose to do.

A reasonable amount of slip roads aren't really fit for purpose, some are old, others just seem to have had silly planners behind them, and some drivers seem to like to cause problems, by not doing everything they can to accomodate people joining ...... most of them in my experience drive lorries .

[driverrob]

Never had to do it myself but I would if the traffic was as bad as you describe.
I have seen it on the A3 heading into Guildford where the A31 (Hog's Back) slip road joins it and traffic closes up as it slows down.
As you said, you don't have right of way to barge into a non-existent gap and force others to take evasive action. I nearly got squeezed into the barrier by someone doing that.

[Fastdruid]

That line at the end means give way...

That means if need be you stop. Ok so its very much not desirable but sometimes you have to.

What annoys me is the traffic lights they've started putting on. The trundle up to speed down the sliproad turns into a 50yrd dash or just pull out into traffic regardless. What a stupid idea.

[marshalla]

Firstly : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slipway

Secondly, if traffic is so heavy that there is no gap to merge into, the only option left is to stop on the slip road if it is safe to do so (i.e. you can stop without being rammed by the vehicle behind).

[Nigel Worc's]

We know he means sliproad !

[marshalla]

Nigel Worc's said:

We know he means sliproad !

I know, but the mental image of him trying to merge into a queue of dinghys is somewhat appealing

[thewidowmaker]

marshalla said:

I know, but the mental image of him trying to merge into a queue of dinghys is somewhat appealing

Sorry, Maritime background lol.

[Pannywagon]

I would still say that if you've got to the end of a slip road (in normal, flowing traffic) without having spotted a gap, matched the speed of the traffic and filled the gap you've planned to use, you either haven't planned at all, or there is something wrong with your technique.

I know the slip road in question and have never had to stop on it.

I did say that if you haven't planned your approach and you then have to stop at the end of the slip road, THEN you have failed as a driver.

[marshalla]

Pannywagon said:

I would still say that if you've got to the end of a slip road (in normal, flowing traffic) without having spotted a gap, matched the speed of the traffic and filled the gap you've planned to use, you either haven't planned at all, or there is something wrong with your technique.

I know the slip road in question and have never had to stop on it.

I did say that if you haven't planned your approach and you then have to stop at the end of the slip road, THEN you have failed as a driver.

Or you are just plain unlucky because the gaps are too small, or being filled by inconsiderate sods pulling in from the outside lane(s). Both circumstances are very rare, however.

[kaf]

If you cannot merge safely, you stop.

Anything else could well lead to an accident that would be your fault, or to you committing an offence.

If you have to stop and Jimmy dimwit behind drives into you, at least he is paying for the repairs.

Anyway, who do you trust for safe driving advice, a fully trained driving instructor, or the wally at work.

[Pannywagon]

kaf said:

If you cannot merge safely, you stop.

Anything else could well lead to an accident that would be your fault, or to you committing an offence.

If you have to stop and Jimmy dimwit behind drives into you, at least he is paying for the repairs.

Anyway, who do you trust for safe driving advice, a fully trained driving instructor, or the wally at work.

Oi! I'm that wally at work.

Please tell me I'm not the only one who manages my approach to a dual-carriageway so that I arrive at the merge point alongside a gap. It's not rocket science.

ETA - My point has been all day long that it's better to NOT be in the position where you have to stop. Does no one understand this?

[thewidowmaker]

marshalla said:

Pannywagon said:

I would still say that if you've got to the end of a slip road (in normal, flowing traffic) without having spotted a gap, matched the speed of the traffic and filled the gap you've planned to use, you either haven't planned at all, or there is something wrong with your technique.

I know the slip road in question and have never had to stop on it.

I did say that if you haven't planned your approach and you then have to stop at the end of the slip road, THEN you have failed as a driver.

Or you are just plain unlucky because the gaps are too small, or being filled by inconsiderate sods pulling in from the outside lane(s). Both circumstances are very rare, however.

Rare, yes. Possible? Very! Telling a newb driver that they need to pull out, or they are a failure of a driver beggars belief. I use the slip daily and I've had to stop a few times now(also seen traffic stopped when I'm travelling past on the carriageway). It's annoying, but I'd rather be safe.

[shovelheadrob]

I witnessed what happens when you get it wrong on a sliproad last Friday, http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0... although IMHO the driver of the car that got hit had enough space to join safely if he had planned it better, this is not always the case. If the traffic on the main carriageway is all tailgating (common in rush hour times) unless you were to stop at the approach to the slip road & watch/wait for a gap, you would have to stop further on. Forcing someone to take evasive action by pushing on & hoping is not an option.
What would you do if there is a car already stopped on the sliproad? Drive around it, not knowing where or when it might move? In the accident I witnessed there was no hard shoulder available & if there was do you class using it to speed match an emergency? I don't think the law would.

[HereBeMonsters]

thewidowmaker said:

marshalla said:

I know, but the mental image of him trying to merge into a queue of dinghys is somewhat appealing

Sorry, Maritime background lol.

I actually thought this was going to be a really interesting thread about tyre choice for stopping on seaweed-covered concrete with a trailer attacher.

[kaf]

Pannywagon said:

Oi! I'm that wally at work.

Please tell me I'm not the only one who manages my approach to a dual-carriageway so that I arrive at the merge point alongside a gap. It's not rocket science.

ETA - My point has been all day long that it's better to NOT be in the position where you have to stop. Does no one understand this?

of course you should manage the approach, and nearly always will, but if for any reason it does not work out, you must stop.

[Nigel Worc's]

kaf said:

of course you should manage the approach, and nearly always will, but if for any reason it does not work out, you mustshould by law, but it is my absolute last resort stop.

edited for how I've dealt with it on the very very few occasions it has been forced upon me, and I have a reasonably quick car, just try accelerating to motorway speeds in a non turbo diesel for example, from a standing start.

It is a horrid situation, I'm a high mileage over confident type of driver, I can imagine the panic it'd cause to someone not used to motorways.

[simoid]

Which is safer:

A) Stopping on a slip road because you can't find a desirable gap, then having to judge the traffic speed in your mirror and wait for a suitable gap to accelerate into, while other cars hopefully form an orderly queue behind you;

or...

B) merging into a slightly smaller than desirable gap at the speed of traffic flow?






P.S. driving intructors, teaching people to pass their test, will obviously tell them to stop and wait at a give way line on a slip if there isn't room, since causing other vehicles to alter course wouldn't end well.

Meanwhile in the real world...

Edited by simoid on Tuesday 31st January 12:01