Pelican Crossing Problem
Discussion
Not sure of the above title but have a pedestrian crossing with traffic lights close to my home, the problem is that a lot of the time cars are queing in one direction across the crossing.
When the lights are green, but I am unable to clear the crossing because a car is stopped on the other side I aways stop keeping the crossing clear in case the lights change.
Several times now when I have done this, a pedestrian will just set off across the road believing the lights have now changed and very nearly got run down by a car coming the other way
I can't think of anything that I could do apart from warning the pedestrian with my horn of the approaching car, to which I have been subjected to a mouthfull of abuse, but better this than watching someone get mowed down.
Just to add that the problem has got a lot worse because many people are now texting or emailing from their phones.
It helps a little if I am able to stop a full car length from the crossing, but any further tips or advise to take the stress out would be most welcome.
Andy
When the lights are green, but I am unable to clear the crossing because a car is stopped on the other side I aways stop keeping the crossing clear in case the lights change.
Several times now when I have done this, a pedestrian will just set off across the road believing the lights have now changed and very nearly got run down by a car coming the other way
I can't think of anything that I could do apart from warning the pedestrian with my horn of the approaching car, to which I have been subjected to a mouthfull of abuse, but better this than watching someone get mowed down.
Just to add that the problem has got a lot worse because many people are now texting or emailing from their phones.
It helps a little if I am able to stop a full car length from the crossing, but any further tips or advise to take the stress out would be most welcome.
Andy
Ultimately the decision to cross is with the pedestrian and they'll know whether the lights have changed by the colour of the illuminated man. Round where I live, pedestrians still decide to cross even if cars are sat across the crossing so I'm not sure even blocking their path would deter them.
Chris
Chris
R0G said:
Using the horn is the correct thing to do if there is an imminent danger - ignore those that give you attitude for doing it
Using the horn to stop them walking in the road is not allowed
How does warning pedestrians of your presence improve the situation? If they are stepping out from the left then they are going to look right when you sound the horn, presumably the danger is coming from their left?Using the horn to stop them walking in the road is not allowed
Edited by R0G on Wednesday 25th January 14:49
If, as you say, using the horn is THE correct action to take, what's the difference between warning them once they have stepped into the road and warning them if they are about to step into the road ? "Using the horn to stop them walking in the road is not allowed".
Perhaps the words 'may be appropriate' rather than trying to asert your opinion as 'the correct thing to do' & 'X is not allowed' would give your opinions more credibility.
As a former trucker, you'll know we often have to stop at the crossing even though there will be space for a car or two the other side, but not enough for a long vehicle. How did you manage to warn the sleepy pedestrian who stepped out then?
Vaux said:
kaf said:
You are obliged by law to keep the crossing area clear, pedestrians need to take account of their own safety, not your fault if they can't be bothered.
Yet HC 192 says "you should keep the crossing clear", not MUST.Prohibition against the stopping of vehicles on crossings
18. The driver of a vehicle shall not cause the vehicle or any part of it to stop within the limits of a crossing unless he is prevented from proceeding by circumstances beyond his control or it is necessary for him to stop to avoid injury or damage to persons or property.
www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1997/2400/regulation/2...
Prohibition against the stopping of vehicles in controlled areas
20...
(2) Except as provided in regulations 21 and 22 the driver of a vehicle shall not cause it or any part of it to stop in a controlled area.
Exceptions to regulation 20
21. Regulation 20 does not prohibit the driver of a vehicle from stopping it in a controlled area—
(b)if the driver is prevented from proceeding by circumstances beyond his control or it is necessary for him to stop to avoid injury or damage to persons or property;...
If the law obliges you not to stop on the crossing in queuing traffic it also obliges you not to stop in the controlled area in queuing traffic. Unless you can find an exemption other than "circumstances beyond his control".
Keeping the crossing clear but not the controlled area doesn't put you in a legally different position as far as the regulations are concerned.
Prohibition against the stopping of vehicles in controlled areas
20...
(2) Except as provided in regulations 21 and 22 the driver of a vehicle shall not cause it or any part of it to stop in a controlled area.
Exceptions to regulation 20
21. Regulation 20 does not prohibit the driver of a vehicle from stopping it in a controlled area—
(b)if the driver is prevented from proceeding by circumstances beyond his control or it is necessary for him to stop to avoid injury or damage to persons or property;...
If the law obliges you not to stop on the crossing in queuing traffic it also obliges you not to stop in the controlled area in queuing traffic. Unless you can find an exemption other than "circumstances beyond his control".
Keeping the crossing clear but not the controlled area doesn't put you in a legally different position as far as the regulations are concerned.
R0G said:
Mike - did you miss the word imminent in what you quoted?
I never suggested hooting if they walked in the road - only if they were about to get hit!!
No Rog, I didn't miss the word imminent, and I'd still like to know how getting a pedestrian to look the wrong way if clearly they've missed the danger coming from the other direction is going to help?I never suggested hooting if they walked in the road - only if they were about to get hit!!
More importantly, as per my last question above, how did you get on driving LGVs and leaving crossings clear? I remember having an awkward situation during my test years ago in Carlisle. Traffic ahead moved off a couple of car lengths but of course I had to leave the crossing clear. Then a whole flock of shoppers decided it must be ok to go whilst traffic was approaching from the other direction. I can't see me using the horn would have made the situation any safer if there had been immenent danger from either fast moving traffic coming in the opposite direction or motorbikes coming up the side? Perhaps, having the window open ready to shout a warning MAY be appropriate, just as using the horn MAY be appropriate. Personaly, I try to avoid stating what THE right or wrong course of action is.
7mike said:
No Rog, I didn't miss the word imminent, and I'd still like to know how getting a pedestrian to look the wrong way if clearly they've missed the danger coming from the other direction is going to help?
More importantly, as per my last question above, how did you get on driving LGVs and leaving crossings clear? I remember having an awkward situation during my test years ago in Carlisle. Traffic ahead moved off a couple of car lengths but of course I had to leave the crossing clear. Then a whole flock of shoppers decided it must be ok to go whilst traffic was approaching from the other direction. I can't see me using the horn would have made the situation any safer if there had been immenent danger from either fast moving traffic coming in the opposite direction or motorbikes coming up the side? Perhaps, having the window open ready to shout a warning MAY be appropriate, just as using the horn MAY be appropriate. Personaly, I try to avoid stating what THE right or wrong course of action is.
BLAST the horn and pedestrians tend to stop where they are - it may also acct as a warning to the driver about to hit themMore importantly, as per my last question above, how did you get on driving LGVs and leaving crossings clear? I remember having an awkward situation during my test years ago in Carlisle. Traffic ahead moved off a couple of car lengths but of course I had to leave the crossing clear. Then a whole flock of shoppers decided it must be ok to go whilst traffic was approaching from the other direction. I can't see me using the horn would have made the situation any safer if there had been immenent danger from either fast moving traffic coming in the opposite direction or motorbikes coming up the side? Perhaps, having the window open ready to shout a warning MAY be appropriate, just as using the horn MAY be appropriate. Personaly, I try to avoid stating what THE right or wrong course of action is.
LGVs and keeping xings clear - no problem except where the xing is less than the vehicle length from perhaps a give way line
Using a horn in LGV in the situation you describe - I have done it and it saved a pedestrian from getting seriously injured or killed - so it works
Zeeky said:
If the law obliges you not to stop on the crossing in queuing traffic it also obliges you not to stop in the controlled area in queuing traffic. Unless you can find an exemption other than "circumstances beyond his control".
Keeping the crossing clear but not the controlled area doesn't put you in a legally different position as far as the regulations are concerned.
But HC 192 shows a drawing of cars stopped in the controlled area, with a big green tick against it, and a car stopped on the crossing with a big red X.Keeping the crossing clear but not the controlled area doesn't put you in a legally different position as far as the regulations are concerned.
Tricky stuff.
Which leads me to believe the authors dont't believe that the prohibition of vehicles stopping applies when queuing either in the controlled area or on the crossing. No "must not". Despite this they chose to create an additional rule of 'should not' for not not stopping on the crossing when queuing.
R0G said:
There is no offence committed for stopping when queueing on zigzags
What exemption are you using? "circumstances beyond his control"?Say there's a set of traffic lights 50 yards past the crossing. Lights turn red, traffic starts to queue back towards the crossing.
As you approach, the far side of the crossing is full of stopped vehicles.
Do you decide to stop just before the crossing itself, or just before the zig zags (part of the "controlled area") on approach? You are in control of where you stop in this situation, so, you should leave the zig zags clear?
("You" means everyone, not just ROG!)
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