Roundabout question
Discussion
Apologies if this is the world's most stupid question but I've tried to research this elsewhere without success (e.g The Highway Code gives no indication) and it seems too prevalent to be coincidence;
Can somebody tell me why, literally, hoards of people have recently started to indicate right to go straight on at roundabouts? Not a bit past 12 o'clock nor the second exit on a Y-shaped. On a bog-standard "carrefour".
If it's me that hasn't kept appropriately abreast of changes in driving regulations and/or recommendations then pile on the abuse but it's really bugging me as I can't see any good reason to do so.
Cheers in advance, Jim
Can somebody tell me why, literally, hoards of people have recently started to indicate right to go straight on at roundabouts? Not a bit past 12 o'clock nor the second exit on a Y-shaped. On a bog-standard "carrefour".
If it's me that hasn't kept appropriately abreast of changes in driving regulations and/or recommendations then pile on the abuse but it's really bugging me as I can't see any good reason to do so.
Cheers in advance, Jim
You are correct that it is becoming prevalent ; I have commented on this before .
It seems to mainly be younger drivers , so I have wondered if it is something the novice driving schools are teaching ?
It is annoying on two counts -
1) You are approaching a roundabout and see another car on the opposite side trafficating right , so you slow or even stop to allow them to pass in front of you - only for them to exit before you , often without even a breakaway signal .
2) You are behind another driver on the approach to a roundabout : they adopt a course to the right and trafficate right ; you , intending to go straight ahead , adopt course to the nearside and may find yourself alongside when it transpires they are not turning right after all .
1 is annoying and 2 is downright dangerous . Having experienced 2 a couple of times I am now wary of and ready for them .
It seems to mainly be younger drivers , so I have wondered if it is something the novice driving schools are teaching ?
It is annoying on two counts -
1) You are approaching a roundabout and see another car on the opposite side trafficating right , so you slow or even stop to allow them to pass in front of you - only for them to exit before you , often without even a breakaway signal .
2) You are behind another driver on the approach to a roundabout : they adopt a course to the right and trafficate right ; you , intending to go straight ahead , adopt course to the nearside and may find yourself alongside when it transpires they are not turning right after all .
1 is annoying and 2 is downright dangerous . Having experienced 2 a couple of times I am now wary of and ready for them .
I can assure you it is not being taught to learners.
Guidance to learners is first exit, signal left on approach.
Exit past 12 o'clock signal right.
In other cases, no signal on approach
In all cases left signal when passing exit before the one you want to take.
BUT they need to consider the roundabout as a whole and decide if they need to vary this according to what they see.
One thing that often catches people out is whether an exit is straight on or right. Often an exit may be at 1 o'clock and locals view it as 'straight on' but from the road sign if it is shown as past 12 non locals will view it as right and so signal.
Guidance to learners is first exit, signal left on approach.
Exit past 12 o'clock signal right.
In other cases, no signal on approach
In all cases left signal when passing exit before the one you want to take.
BUT they need to consider the roundabout as a whole and decide if they need to vary this according to what they see.
One thing that often catches people out is whether an exit is straight on or right. Often an exit may be at 1 o'clock and locals view it as 'straight on' but from the road sign if it is shown as past 12 non locals will view it as right and so signal.
Another question...
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=warren+drive+walla...
(I hope the link works).
If you are coming from the right hand side here and going straight on, would you indicate right?
I see so many people indicating right, and it really annoys me, I'd like to know if I'm in the wrong.
In my mind, if you are coming from the right of the picture and taking a left into Warren Drive you indicate left, if you are carrying on over the roundabout and therefore staying on Grove Road then no indication is required until you have passed the Warren Drive (1st exit) in which case you would indicate left to show you are leaving the roundabout; although even then I'm not totally convinced you'd need to indicate.
Therefore the only reason you would be indicating right was if you were taking the third exit and therefore coming back on yourself.
Thoughts?
Edit: screwed my left and right up.
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=warren+drive+walla...
(I hope the link works).
If you are coming from the right hand side here and going straight on, would you indicate right?
I see so many people indicating right, and it really annoys me, I'd like to know if I'm in the wrong.
In my mind, if you are coming from the right of the picture and taking a left into Warren Drive you indicate left, if you are carrying on over the roundabout and therefore staying on Grove Road then no indication is required until you have passed the Warren Drive (1st exit) in which case you would indicate left to show you are leaving the roundabout; although even then I'm not totally convinced you'd need to indicate.
Therefore the only reason you would be indicating right was if you were taking the third exit and therefore coming back on yourself.
Thoughts?
Edit: screwed my left and right up.
The sign before the roundabout shows it as 12 o'clock, so no signal would normally be needed,
BUT do you think that a right turn signal would confirm to traffic come from your left, that you not taking the first exit and so benefit them?, after all you are taking the last exit?
There is no right or wrong here, as in many aspects of driving, just two ways of doing the same thing safely.
If you think a right signal would offer benefit to another, give it, provided it is unlikely to mislead, if it would not benefit, then there is no point.
BUT do you think that a right turn signal would confirm to traffic come from your left, that you not taking the first exit and so benefit them?, after all you are taking the last exit?
There is no right or wrong here, as in many aspects of driving, just two ways of doing the same thing safely.
If you think a right signal would offer benefit to another, give it, provided it is unlikely to mislead, if it would not benefit, then there is no point.
kaf said:
The sign before the roundabout shows it as 12 o'clock, so no signal would normally be needed,
BUT do you think that a right turn signal would confirm to traffic come from your left, that you not taking the first exit and so benefit them?, after all you are taking the last exit?
I do not agreeBUT do you think that a right turn signal would confirm to traffic come from your left, that you not taking the first exit and so benefit them?, after all you are taking the last exit?
If a vehicle is coming from my right without a signal then it is going to cross my path
If it then turns left into the road I am coming out of then at least I did not make a wrong assumption
The rules are very easy for a bog standard roundabout with 4 exits at 3, 6, 9 & 12 o-clock - right signal for right turn - left signal for left turn - no signal for road ahead
ROG I agree, vehicle coming from right, no signal, assume it is crossing your path.
But if the vehicle is signalling right, it is still crossing your path, so no harm done. AND it erases ANY doubt as to whether it might turn left or not.
Not saying a signal is needed, as I clearly stated, but also a signal would not particularly mislead.
But if the vehicle is signalling right, it is still crossing your path, so no harm done. AND it erases ANY doubt as to whether it might turn left or not.
Not saying a signal is needed, as I clearly stated, but also a signal would not particularly mislead.
kaf said:
ROG I agree, vehicle coming from right, no signal, assume it is crossing your path.
But if the vehicle is signalling right, it is still crossing your path, so no harm done. AND it erases ANY doubt as to whether it might turn left or not.
Not saying a signal is needed, as I clearly stated, but also a signal would not particularly mislead.
So if it is going ahead with a right signal then is it turning right or going ahead?But if the vehicle is signalling right, it is still crossing your path, so no harm done. AND it erases ANY doubt as to whether it might turn left or not.
Not saying a signal is needed, as I clearly stated, but also a signal would not particularly mislead.
Thanks for all the responses and for easing my mind, I was genuinely becoming paranoid that it was me. The really puzzling thing is that, in my experience at least, it's not even predominantly young'uns.
Anyway, thanks again I will sleep soundly tonight.
Cheers, Jim
Pontoneer said:
1) You are approaching a roundabout and see another car on the opposite side trafficating right , so you slow or even stop to allow them to pass in front of you - only for them to exit before you , often without even a breakaway signal .
2) You are behind another driver on the approach to a roundabout : they adopt a course to the right and trafficate right ; you , intending to go straight ahead , adopt course to the nearside and may find yourself alongside when it transpires they are not turning right after all .
1 is annoying and 2 is downright dangerous . Having experienced 2 a couple of times I am now wary of and ready for them .
Another I'd add is if you're at a 3,6,9,12 roundabout at 3 intending to turn left (6) and someone comes from 12 indicating right (but in fact going straight on - 6), you may be tempted to pull out believing that neither of you will obstruct the other. I haven't done it but I'd be interested to see how two Insurance companies would settle any resulting collision.2) You are behind another driver on the approach to a roundabout : they adopt a course to the right and trafficate right ; you , intending to go straight ahead , adopt course to the nearside and may find yourself alongside when it transpires they are not turning right after all .
1 is annoying and 2 is downright dangerous . Having experienced 2 a couple of times I am now wary of and ready for them .
Anyway, thanks again I will sleep soundly tonight.
Cheers, Jim
kaf said:
I can assure you it is not being taught to learners.
Guidance to learners is first exit, signal left on approach.
Exit past 12 o'clock signal right.
In other cases, no signal on approach
In all cases left signal when passing exit before the one you want to take.
BUT they need to consider the roundabout as a whole and decide if they need to vary this according to what they see.
One thing that often catches people out is whether an exit is straight on or right. Often an exit may be at 1 o'clock and locals view it as 'straight on' but from the road sign if it is shown as past 12 non locals will view it as right and so signal.
Exactly as per HC , Roadcraft and all the instruction I have either received or given at all levels from novice to AD .Guidance to learners is first exit, signal left on approach.
Exit past 12 o'clock signal right.
In other cases, no signal on approach
In all cases left signal when passing exit before the one you want to take.
BUT they need to consider the roundabout as a whole and decide if they need to vary this according to what they see.
One thing that often catches people out is whether an exit is straight on or right. Often an exit may be at 1 o'clock and locals view it as 'straight on' but from the road sign if it is shown as past 12 non locals will view it as right and so signal.
I can fully appreciate the differential between 12 o'clock and any point beyond , but the examples I have seen have been on roundabouts where the straight ahead road is directly across at 12 o'clock with no deviation in the course of the road , and advance direction signs confirming this .
It must simply be a 'bad habit' that is spreading by example . Simply the prevalence of it amongst younger drivers made me wonder whether some rogue instructors were teaching this .
R0G said:
So if it is going ahead with a right signal then is it turning right or going ahead?
Here is where we differ a bit then ROG. I don't regard the convention at a roundabout as being a 'rule' but as a 'guidance'.To me the issue is less, 'is it right or ahead', than 'whatever it is how can I best convey my intentions to others.'
So there might be a situation where I would consider a right signal for a 12 exit provided it is the LAST exit.
never say never and judge each situation on it's merits.
kaf said:
Here is where we differ a bit then ROG. I don't regard the convention at a roundabout as being a 'rule' but as a 'guidance'.
To me the issue is less, 'is it right or ahead', than 'whatever it is how can I best convey my intentions to others.'
So there might be a situation where I would consider a right signal for a 12 exit provided it is the LAST exit.
never say never and judge each situation on it's merits.
We have many roundabouts with 2 exits - 1 to the left and 1 straight ahead - very close to me which I have used over 1000 times and have NEVER signalled for the last straight ahead exit and not has anyone else as far as I knowTo me the issue is less, 'is it right or ahead', than 'whatever it is how can I best convey my intentions to others.'
So there might be a situation where I would consider a right signal for a 12 exit provided it is the LAST exit.
never say never and judge each situation on it's merits.
In fact the only times I have seen a right signal given is when a driver is doing a U turn
R0G said:
We have many roundabouts with 2 exits - 1 to the left and 1 straight ahead - very close to me which I have used over 1000 times and have NEVER signalled for the last straight ahead exit and not has anyone else as far as I know
In fact the only times I have seen a right signal given is when a driver is doing a U turn
I remember an ex police class 1 doing exactly that during a demo drive, made a big point of it in the commentary too. I'm with Kaf on this; never say never!In fact the only times I have seen a right signal given is when a driver is doing a U turn
kaf said:
R0G said:
So if it is going ahead with a right signal then is it turning right or going ahead?
Here is where we differ a bit then ROG. I don't regard the convention at a roundabout as being a 'rule' but as a 'guidance'.To me the issue is less, 'is it right or ahead', than 'whatever it is how can I best convey my intentions to others.'
So there might be a situation where I would consider a right signal for a 12 exit provided it is the LAST exit.
never say never and judge each situation on it's merits.
OK - I shouldn't be relying on your indicator, but in this instance it's a misleading signal I think.
Edited by Vaux on Friday 6th January 16:16
Vaux said:
For the example given in Wallasey (looking east along Grove Rd at the R/A), if I was driving the blue Disco and you approached with a right indicator on, I'd be inclined to think you were doing a U turn and, if I was waiting to turn left, I'd end up pulling out in front of you. At least if I saw no indicator, I'd wait to figure out if you were going straight on or turning.
OK - I shouldn't be relying on your indicator, but in this instance it's a misleading signal I think.
Spot onOK - I shouldn't be relying on your indicator, but in this instance it's a misleading signal I think.
R0G said:
Vaux said:
For the example given in Wallasey (looking east along Grove Rd at the R/A), if I was driving the blue Disco and you approached with a right indicator on, I'd be inclined to think you were doing a U turn and, if I was waiting to turn left, I'd end up pulling out in front of you. At least if I saw no indicator, I'd wait to figure out if you were going straight on or turning.
OK - I shouldn't be relying on your indicator, but in this instance it's a misleading signal I think.
Spot onOK - I shouldn't be relying on your indicator, but in this instance it's a misleading signal I think.
kaf said:
So there might be a situation where I would consider a right signal for a 12 exit provided it is the LAST exit.
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