Help me settle a point?

[Pothole]

On the link below, if you were travelling South-North (or as near as dammit) on the B582, would you feel it necessary to indicate at any point on the two mini roundabouts?

http://g.co/maps/vrd8a

NB, check the satellite view, the northerly roundabout is not twice the size of the other...

[7mike]

I probably would at the second roundabout if something was approaching from the 10 o'clock position (Manor Rd)

[Pothole]

OK, so you'd signal right, presumably?

My point was that you're not turning right, really, you're going effectively straight on, and that if you're not indicating left specifically then the person joining from 10 o'clock should be giving way anyway so the indication isn't really telling them anything extra or more useful than none at all.

[Vipers]

7mike said:

I probably would at the second roundabout if something was approaching from the 10 o'clock position (Manor Rd)

Totally agree.

I would add that it depends on the size of the roundabout as well, if its bigger enough for you to indicate in time before you made the turn, but given there is time, yes I would certainly indicate, afterall it is a roundabout, cept some are soo bloody small, it's almost meaningfull to try to do so.

Edited by Vipers on Saturday 31st December 17:20

[Pothole]

Vipers said:

7mike said:

I probably would at the second roundabout if something was approaching from the 10 o'clock position (Manor Rd)

Totally agree.

despite my point?

[Vipers]

Pothole said:

Vipers said:

7mike said:

I probably would at the second roundabout if something was approaching from the 10 o'clock position (Manor Rd)

Totally agree.

despite my point?

Missread, I would indicate if some was approaching/waiting from the B582 heading south.

Having looked in street view, they arn't that big, either of them.

Edited by Vipers on Saturday 31st December 17:26

[Pothole]

Vipers said:

Pothole said:

Vipers said:

7mike said:

I probably would at the second roundabout if something was approaching from the 10 o'clock position (Manor Rd)

Totally agree.

despite my point?

Missread, I would indicate if some was approaching/waiting from the B582 heading south.

What? Really? If you indicate right you are surely saying you are going to cross in front of them and go back round the roundabout, if left you are saying you are going east on Manor Road....

[7mike]

Pothole said:

OK, so you'd signal right, presumably?

My point was that you're not turning right, really, you're going effectively straight on, and that if you're not indicating left specifically then the person joining from 10 o'clock should be giving way anyway so the indication isn't really telling them anything extra or more useful than none at all.

Ok so person coming from your left does the route often. They are often left guessing who is taking the first exit and who the second? They've just had a blazing row with the other half and think fk it I'm going!!

I prefer to use signals to inform others rather than get bogged down in rules. But that's just my view.

[Iain XR4i]

If there is anyone around to benefit from the signals, like the two cars shown in the satellite image I would indicate:

Left on approach to the first, then switch to right for the second, before a quick change back to a left.

It doesn't look as if there is a lot of time to then indicate left when leaving the second, though.

[motco]

It may be argued that you can never turn right on any roundabout. A roundabout is a curved one way street with only left turns off. Whilst I acknowledge that custom and practice dictates signalling right on approach if leaving at anything other than straight ahead, in another parallel universe the rules could be to signal ONLY if leaving at the next available exit. This way any vehicle NOT signalling left must be assumed to be remaining on the roundabout.

In your case, which is quite similar to a mini-roundabout on the A40 in Beaconsfield old town heading east across the junction with the A355 from Amersham, I might signal if it looked desirable but not routinely as road position speaks loudly there.

Here for plan view

and Here for street view

[waremark]

If in doubt about whether a signal will help or confuse, no doubt you will be cautious - it will probably not matter what decision you make about the signal.

[R0G]

Pothole said:

On the link below, if you were travelling South-North (or as near as dammit) on the B582, would you feel it necessary to indicate at any point on the two mini roundabouts?

http://g.co/maps/vrd8a

NB, check the satellite view, the northerly roundabout is not twice the size of the other...

I know this road as it is on one of my advanced driving routes when I take out associates

Indicator required for second rbt if other road users will find it useful

Reason - the approach to the second from the south is angled so that the exit is now beyond the 12 o clock point

[Pothole]

R0G said:

Pothole said:

On the link below, if you were travelling South-North (or as near as dammit) on the B582, would you feel it necessary to indicate at any point on the two mini roundabouts?

http://g.co/maps/vrd8a

NB, check the satellite view, the northerly roundabout is not twice the size of the other...

I know this road as it is on one of my advanced driving routes when I take out associates

Indicator required for second rbt if other road users will find it useful

Reason - the approach to the second from the south is angled so that the exit is now beyond the 12 o clock point

How do I know 'if other road users will find it useful'? I am not a clairvoyant.

[R0G]

Pothole said:

How do I know 'if other road users will find it useful'? I am not a clairvoyant.

If you were in their position and looking at your vehicle what would you be expecting your vehicle to do - now decide

[Pothole]

R0G said:

Pothole said:

How do I know 'if other road users will find it useful'? I am not a clairvoyant.

If you were in their position and looking at your vehicle what would you be expecting your vehicle to do - now decide

That's kind of my whole point. If I was waiting to turn right from the eastern entry road to go south, or waiting to go straight across East to West I would expect ANY and EVERY vehicle approaching from the South not indicating LEFT to have priority over me.

Said vehicle would in that case have no need to indicate at all if it was travelling South to North.

How am I incorrect?

[R0G]

If they all indicated when others would like to know without having to resort to assumption then it make things easier for all as everyone will get an idea of the intentions of others

That said - no driver should ever rely on an indicator from another as they might have left it on from a previous turn

I never rely on indicators at a mini roundabout unless I see the driver activate it for ME and even then I am very wary that I might need to react quickly and give myself time to stop

If at the second rbt in your OP, the vehicle does not have turned wheels then it could be going either way when it crosses the line

[S. Gonzales Esq.]

Pothole said:

...would you feel it necessary to indicate at any point on the two mini roundabouts?

Probably not left at the first as it has the potential to confuse people at the second roundabout. For the second, if there's anyone approaching / waiting at the other entrance then definitely signal right to make my intentions clearer.

Admittedly other road users shouldn't make assumptions based on incomplete information, but that's no excuse not to be as clear as possible about what you're doing. What happens if the other driver doesn't think like you?

Being clear and predictable in your actions is an important part of good driving and a big help to your own safety - it gives others valuable time to react and plan.

Another way of looking at it: What's the benefit to you of not signalling? What's the potential downside of not signalling? Failure to help another road user to do the right thing reduces your safety unnecessarily.

Edited by S. Gonzales Esq. on Saturday 31st December 22:30

[johnao]

S. Gonzales Esq. said:

Pothole said:

...would you feel it necessary to indicate at any point on the two mini roundabouts?

Probably not left at the first as it has the potential to confuse people at the second roundabout. For the second, if there's anyone approaching / waiting at the other entrance then definitely signal right to make my intentions clearer.

Admittedly other road users shouldn't make assumptions based on incomplete information, but that's no excuse not to be as clear as possible about what you're doing. What happens if the other driver doesn't think like you?

Being clear and predictable in your actions is an important part of good driving and a big help to your own safety - it gives others valuable time to react and plan.

Another way of looking at it: What's the benefit to you of not signalling? What's the potential downside of not signalling? Failure to help another road user to do the right thing reduces your safety unnecessarily.

The title that the OP has given to this thread would lead me to think that he is involved in a discussion where both sides have taken up somewhat entrenched positions. It also appears that the OP and his interlocutor are looking for a "rule" for signalling that must/should be applied when driving through this roundabout. I learnt very early on that advanced driving is not about applying "rules" to hazard situations, it's about applying "principles". I was taught to use strict "Rules" in order to pass the DSA test, as are DSA candidates to this very day. As advanced drivers I would like to think that we are thinking drivers who are applying driving principles to each and every hazard. That's why I've quoted Gonzales above, as it nicely sums up this approach.

For this thread the principle involved is... give a signal if in your opinion another road user might benefit. The emphasis is on the word might. You don't have to be a mind reader or "get inside the other driver's head" or spend time pondering over this question, that would be both impossible and/or foolish. If there's another road user present and there is the possibility, however remote, that they might benefit, then signal. That's the "principle". If you base your decision not to signal when there is a vehicle waiting at 10:00 O'clock at the second roundabout because you are applying a "rule" that you "shouldn't" have to signal because the other driver "should" also be driving according to the "rules", then, to my mind, that would show poor judgement.

I'm speculating now but, heaven help us if the OP's interlocutor is yet another IAM or RoSPA observer/tutor attempting to impose his rigid "rules" on an unsuspecting associate, let's hope not.

[7mike]

johnao said:

I'm speculating now but, heaven help us if the OP's interlocutor is yet another IAM or RoSPA observer/tutor attempting to impose his rigid "rules" on an unsuspecting associate, let's hope not.

I'd speculate that the OP has had a few near misses at this roundabout and wants reassurance that he's in the right.

[Vipers]

You could do what I do, if a car is on the roundabout, and you have no idea where they are going, just stay put and see what they do.

The number of cars who approach from my right hand, and turn immediately left without indicating is just so bloody irritating, numpties, absolutely no idea of roundabout procdure, and I am not talking about mini roundabouts, which I will admit some are so small it is almost impossible to apply indicating procedure short of indicating left as you approach to indicate your intention to someonw waiting to exit from the road you are turning into.

And of course as previously said, don't assume the indicator means the driver intends to turn, wait until you are positive of their intentions.