Merging onto a motorway- near miss

[blearyeyedboy]

Dear PHers.

Not sure what I could/should do about this one... but I keep thinking about a near miss yesterday that spooked me. I was merging from th M4 onto the M5 here.

(Edit- for clarity, since a lot of lanes cross- this is the very last one from the west bound M4 heading to the southbound M5, where you have to choose between the right hand lane joining the M5 proper or the left lane for the A38 for Filton/Thornbury.)

The outside lane that proceeds to the M5 is a very wide one- wide enough for 2 cars- but is most definitely a single lane.

I had already merged into the right hand lane at a steady 60mph (in slow moving traffic) when Car A travelled considerably faster and overtook me in the same lane. I thanked my lucky stars for a near miss and moved over to the middle of the lane when another Car B approaching at speed did exactly the same thing- this time there wasn't room for two of us, and I sounded my horn- admittedly partly through frustration, but I hope mainly through trying to signal a danger. When I could see him committed to passing me and scrabbling the dirt off the road next to the barrier I moved to the left to avoid an accident.

I could see both Cars A and B in my rear view approaching but just didn't anticipate that 2 cars would try to overtake me in the same lane as me. The lanes are enormously wide, admittedly...

So my questions are:

(a) Am I missing something? Is it appropriate for Cars A and B to overtake me in the same lane under these circumstances?
(b) Should I have anticipated better? I certainly don't want to bully cars over, but normally I try to maintain position in the centre of a lane- however, I feel that if I'd taken position in the centre of my lane for either car then an accident would have resulted. Regardless of who's right or wrong, I hopw safety was my main concern.

Thanks for your input.

Currently nursing myself at home for gut rot so off work today and will be logging in many times today...

Edited by blearyeyedboy on Monday 19th December 11:21

Edited by blearyeyedboy on Monday 19th December 11:22

[R0G]

I assume you mean from M4 going West onto M5 north?
Google strretview did not go along that road so I had to look at it on satellite view.

I does look wide enough for two cars side by side

I am surprised that they hatched off so much of it

It is certainly legal to do it but how safe it is depends on many things

[blearyeyedboy]

Sorry ROG, I struggled with Google Maps.

I mean West Bound M4 --> South Bound M5.

The road (though it doesn't look it on Streetview) is wide enough for 2 cars but not much to spare.

[R0G]

blearyeyedboy said:

Sorry ROG, I struggled with Google Maps.

I mean West Bound M4 --> South Bound M5.

The road (though it doesn't look it on Streetview) is wide enough for 2 cars but not much to spare.

M4W to M5S slip road

Do you mean this link?

[LordGrover]

The whole interchange is a bit of a faff. I tend to approach it with an open mind, assume everyone else is an idiot and keep my wits about me.

[blearyeyedboy]

Correct direction, but move on to the next bit where traffic flows cross.

[218g]

To clarify, are you talking about here? Where the white van and blue car appear to be in the same wide lane?

Very difficult to comment without having been been there. But if I've got the right location, your slip lane becomes a permanent new lane on the southbound M5. If someone was catching me fast on a slip road, I'm not sure my first thought would be that they were going to try to overtake me on the slip road itself, but I'd certainly be expecting them to look to come past as soon as we'd joined the motorway. Perhaps the width of the slip road here is enough to encourage people to try and pass on the slip road itself.

Much as the first car doing it might have been a surprise, do you think it might have been reasonable to assume a second car approaching in the same manner might be about to do the same thing? After the first car passed, was the second one visible yet (approaching from behind you) when you moved back to the middle of your lane?

[T0nup]

LordGrover said:

The whole interchange is a bit of a faff. I tend to approach it with an open mind, assume everyone else is an idiot and keep my wits about me.

Agreed - This entire junction seems to be a free for all at the best of times, and the idiots make it no better.

[blearyeyedboy]

Yes 218g, that's the spot, but further back where the barrier is.

I was merging from a slow moving lane, but faster traffic was merging behind me after I'd joined.

Yes, you have a point- when I thought "Phew, that was a close one" I almost certainly didn't have my antennae out for the second car.

I used to work as a doctor in a nearby A&E and the M4/M5 junction drummed up plenty of business...

[Zod]

I've seen loads of cars go across the hatchings at that junction.

[218g]

Zod said:

I've seen loads of cars go across the hatchings at that junction.

I've seen loads of cars go across the hatchings at loads of junctions . It sounds like the OP had a couple of people behind who were too impatient to wait for the opportunity to cross the hatchings to pass him, and went for it before the hatchings started.

Given the width of the lane at that point, perhaps it's something some of the locals do a lot.

Edited by 218g on Monday 19th December 12:09

[blearyeyedboy]

'tis true, they're very wide.

I *am* a local and I've not seen it before... maybe I don't drive enough or I've been naive. Still, lesson learned...

A further question is when does "defensively occupying the centre of your lane" become "barging Cars A & B into the barrier"?

I'm more concerned with safety than with being "right".

[Zod]

218g said:

Zod said:

I've seen loads of cars go across the hatchings at that junction.

I've seen loads of cars go across the hatchings at loads of junctions . It sounds like the OP had a couple of people behind who were too impatient to wait for the opportunity to cross the hatchings to pass him, and went for it before the hatchings started.

Given the width of the lane at that point, perhaps it's something some of the locals do a lot.

Edited by 218g on Monday 19th December 12:09

It's that particulart one though. It's a high speed one and it catches people out.

[Deva Link]

blearyeyedboy said:

I used to work as a doctor in a nearby A&E and the M4/M5 junction drummed up plenty of business...

With that insight then I'm surprised at your original question. It's really no good expecting other drivers to drive to the same standard as you do.

Some drivers are drunk, others are on drugs, are mentally ill, or are just complete idiots.

[218g]

blearyeyedboy said:

A further question is when does "defensively occupying the centre of your lane" become "barging Cars A & B into the barrier"?

Ultimately, not until you are sufficiently far over to the right that nobody could imagine squeezing their car between you and the barrier (which on a lane this wide would, I imagine, leave plenty of space for someone to pass on the left). It may be that this lane is simply too wide for you to be able to discourage someone from passing you if they're really intent on doing it.

[blearyeyedboy]

Deva Link said:

With that insight then I'm surprised at your original question. It's really no good expecting other drivers to drive to the same standard as you do.

Some drivers are drunk, others are on drugs, are mentally ill, or are just complete idiots.

That's a tad harsh, Deva. It's one thing to expect idiocy in general. It's another to expect a particular unknown brand of idiocy.

What constructive advice would you offer me when faced with the same situation again?

[Deva Link]

blearyeyedboy said:

What constructive advice would you offer me when faced with the same situation again?

I guess all you can do is be aware this might happen and let the other drivers get on with it. I'm a big fan of bold positioning but in the situation you described someone who wanted to pass would probably undertake.

You could go a different way and avoid the junction. If you're not there, you can't have an incident or accident there!

[7db]

I think you have to do all you can to make your intentions clear and assume that most people -- even those who might otherwise do something dangerous -- will do their best to avoid a collision with something obvious.

[RV8]

Over the years I've used that junction many times heading north and south on the M5 from the M4, it can be pain. People need to learn to slow down well before that junction. Coming off the M4 and heading for the M5 Bristol W there is only a short distance and two choices - A38 or M5. Half the time some git or ten will try to shunt you along down the slip road for the A38 (filton) and despite indicating right for those heading for the M5, in a hope that you'll get let in, they start to bunch up and it's a pain in the arse to get across. The same coming the other way only now you have more lanes converging where it seems every prat in a shiny VAG for miles around is playing silly buggers.
All the problems are caused by people going far too fast. There are always a few aholes doing 70+ and they are mostly not paying attention.

[Jabbah]

blearyeyedboy said:

A further question is when does "defensively occupying the centre of your lane" become "barging Cars A & B into the barrier"?

When you change your positioning in reaction to observing cars A & B to make it more difficult for them to pass...