Advice on my motorway driving
Discussion
Overall I consider myself a good driver, always looking to learn new techniques and look to re-enforce my knowledge. I do most my driving around town and I am not often on the motorways. When I do drive on the motorway, I make sure I use all 3 lanes and seem to be one of the few that do (unlike the drive through France in my old Lotus, lane discipline there was excellent). Anyway back to my question... I always try to maintain good distance to the car in front but the one thing I have been doing (which may be wrong) is that when I see the brake lights of the car infront and estimate that the car is reducing their speed slowly, I have tried to slow down my car without using the brakes (just by releasing the throttle pressure, no changing down the gears or other odd techniques). There have been a couple of times where I have needed to put the brakes on a bit more rapid than is comfortable. My reasoning for minimal use of the brake is to reduce the phatom traffic jam that you got on motorways where everyone slams on their brakes for no reason and causes a jam half a mile behind, but in doing this, I may be a cause of this exact problem.
When a car in front of you puts the brake lights on (assuming there is a good gap), do you immediately follow suit or handle it differently?
When a car in front of you puts the brake lights on (assuming there is a good gap), do you immediately follow suit or handle it differently?
What's the car in front of the car in front doing? And the one in front of that (ad infinitum, well as far as visible)? If they're all braking at motorway speeds then it's highly likely you will need to as well, unless you've left a humongous gap. I usually find that by looking ahead like this, that I'm already braking (or at least hovering over the pedal), before the car directly in front has.
To a lesser extent, it's also worth considering the volume of traffic behind, particularly the closeness of the following vehicle. If you just lift off the throttle and engine brake to slow down you won't be showing any brake lights at all, and if the car behind has left a smaller gap than you, they might be right up your behind before they realise, and not be able to stop. What if you've engine braked gradually, but it still isn't enough - you might have used up the gap in front and behind, before your brake lights come on. I think it's better to show a bit of brake light as early as possible during deceleration at m'way speeds, to give the car behind as much warning as possible. If they don't read what's going on and just stamp hard on the brakes, yes it will cause a concertina behind them, but that's not your fault or problem, and it's preferable to having them parked in your boot.
To a lesser extent, it's also worth considering the volume of traffic behind, particularly the closeness of the following vehicle. If you just lift off the throttle and engine brake to slow down you won't be showing any brake lights at all, and if the car behind has left a smaller gap than you, they might be right up your behind before they realise, and not be able to stop. What if you've engine braked gradually, but it still isn't enough - you might have used up the gap in front and behind, before your brake lights come on. I think it's better to show a bit of brake light as early as possible during deceleration at m'way speeds, to give the car behind as much warning as possible. If they don't read what's going on and just stamp hard on the brakes, yes it will cause a concertina behind them, but that's not your fault or problem, and it's preferable to having them parked in your boot.
vonhosen said:
Personally I try to anticipate the braking of vehicles ahead by reading the road ahead of them (primary information) rather than reacting to their brake lights (secondary information).
Textbook stuff, there is then how to deal with those behind, they, in the main, having no knowledge of the textbook.WhoseGeneration said:
vonhosen said:
Personally I try to anticipate the braking of vehicles ahead by reading the road ahead of them (primary information) rather than reacting to their brake lights (secondary information).
Textbook stuff, there is then how to deal with those behind, they, in the main, having no knowledge of the textbook.vonhosen said:
If I don't have to brake anything other than slow & light, the risk of that behind me is reduced no matter how close it is (even if it is just looking no further ahead than my brake lights).
You're having to show your brakelights though, probably not when needed for slowing, you having acceleration sense, which was my point.It's the having to drive for others that, as you know, is the real concern for an AD approach on busy roads.
Empty roads, well, senses alert, that's where fun lies.
WhoseGeneration said:
vonhosen said:
If I don't have to brake anything other than slow & light, the risk of that behind me is reduced no matter how close it is (even if it is just looking no further ahead than my brake lights).
You're having to show your brakelights though, probably not when needed for slowing, you having acceleration sense, which was my point.It's the having to drive for others that, as you know, is the real concern for an AD approach on busy roads.
Empty roads, well, senses alert, that's where fun lies.
Interesting discussion guys and really found it useful.
Thanks all
vonhosen said:
Personally I try to anticipate the braking of vehicles ahead by reading the road ahead of them (primary information) rather than reacting to their brake lights (secondary information).
This is probably something I got out of the habit of when I had my Lotus as the only car for 3 years. Very difficult to see the cars ahead when you are so low to the ground unless you are on a corner to ridge of a hill. Going to be doing to national speed limit driving on the dual carridgeway and motorway tomorrow, will make sure I use the look as far as I can technique more than I have been.Thanks all
@crapper - as others have said, leave an appropriate gap, then you have something to slow down into. What others behind you think, is immaterial, unless you are physically holding them up (and you're a thinking driver, so you won't be). Often you'll find the driver behind will relax in a similar fashion and extend their gap also. If they do the opposite and tailgate you, just nip into a gap to your left for long enough to let them past. If your car can't see over the one in front, position it so that you can see past it to one side. Don't fall into the trap of following in the wheel tracks of the car in front ...
vonhosen said:
WhoseGeneration said:
vonhosen said:
If I don't have to brake anything other than slow & light, the risk of that behind me is reduced no matter how close it is (even if it is just looking no further ahead than my brake lights).
You're having to show your brakelights though, probably not when needed for slowing, you having acceleration sense, which was my point.It's the having to drive for others that, as you know, is the real concern for an AD approach on busy roads.
Empty roads, well, senses alert, that's where fun lies.
I've recently become a regular motorway driver and I've noticed the brake ripple seems to fit into two categories. The first is where it's reactive and is usually down to a handful of cars being too close together and the braking is just to knock a few mph off - this can easily be coped with using acceleration sense and a 2-3 second gap. The second is the "sudden" stop scenario where the traffic in the lane becomes much slower or even stationary and it's inevitable in this case the brakes will be needed.
Trying to identify which scenario may help you decide what action you need to take - the latter scenario seems to happen around junctions where people are trying to move from overtaking lanes to the junction (usually at the 1 mile marker
).
Chris
Trying to identify which scenario may help you decide what action you need to take - the latter scenario seems to happen around junctions where people are trying to move from overtaking lanes to the junction (usually at the 1 mile marker
).Chris
Edited by ScoobyChris on Thursday 15th December 08:44
As far as possible I try to use throttle control to control my speed and a decent gap in front (bigger if the person behind is tail-gating).
2 seconds should the minimum gap as even that doesn't allow much braking distance (ie. very hard braking) in the event of the car in front slowing suddenly. Even less so in less than perfect conditions.
I experienced this on the M6 about 10 years ago in drizzly winter, when the cars in front stopped hard (I think that somebody had pulled out into my lane a couple of cars ahead) and I thought I was a reasonable distance behind.
I was fortunate enough to be able to brake, get off the brakes (no ABS) and steer into a space in the left lane before resuming braking, halting somewhere alongside the rear wheels of the car in front. I'm not sure if any cars crashed or not, but they must have been extremely close and probably had ABS.
Lesson learned. Leave an even larger gap.
FWIW, people were happily tail-gating and cutting each other up on the M60 in rain and spray at 2degC this morning. Other people, eh?
2 seconds should the minimum gap as even that doesn't allow much braking distance (ie. very hard braking) in the event of the car in front slowing suddenly. Even less so in less than perfect conditions.
I experienced this on the M6 about 10 years ago in drizzly winter, when the cars in front stopped hard (I think that somebody had pulled out into my lane a couple of cars ahead) and I thought I was a reasonable distance behind.
I was fortunate enough to be able to brake, get off the brakes (no ABS) and steer into a space in the left lane before resuming braking, halting somewhere alongside the rear wheels of the car in front. I'm not sure if any cars crashed or not, but they must have been extremely close and probably had ABS.
Lesson learned. Leave an even larger gap.
FWIW, people were happily tail-gating and cutting each other up on the M60 in rain and spray at 2degC this morning. Other people, eh?
Edited by MC Bodge on Thursday 15th December 10:07
A few years back I was out with a work collegue (he was driving) and noticed that while on the motorway he would hit the brakes violently as soon as the car in front showed a brakelight. After a while I asked him why he did that and his answer was "best be safe than sorry". I explained that if you left enough room you had time to see what was going on and than had no need to brake so hard infact you could just decelerate and save carnage behind. It didn't sink in.
RVVUNM said:
he would hit the brakes violently as soon as the car in front showed a brakelight. After a while I asked him why he did that and his answer was "best be safe than sorry".
Tail-gating is faster, innit?Other than a brief mention of "Only a fool breaks the Two second rule" whilst learning to drive, most people have probably never given much thought to driving in columns of vehicles.
In fact, most people don't give driving any conscious thought at all, hence blindly, closely, following the car in front and responding by reflex to the switching of the brake lights by braking. On most occasions nothing bad happens so they don't see it as a problem.
Driving has become a passive, reactive activity for many.
It would be interesting to see the results of putting a typical A-to-B driver in a car with no seatbelts, air-bag, windscreen, bodywork etc. and asking them to drive on a busy motorway (I'd allow them some eye protection). A motorbike would do the job, although most of them would struggle to ride one.
Edited by MC Bodge on Thursday 15th December 16:41
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