Roundabout lanes, am I right or wrong?
Discussion
Ladies and gents, Junction 4 M2.
Daily commute. I leave the M2 westbound (so on the sliproad approaching the roundabout from the right of the picture). I'm turning right, up to Chatham, like everyone else on the sliproad. Often I'll approach in the right hand lane. But I'm doing so less often.
Today, the slip road was getting full and traffic was just about to start stacking up, stationary onto L1 of the busy M2 . -Always feels like a crash waiting to happen. So I nipped up the empty left hand lane and waited for a gap, mindful of the fact that traffic in the right hand lane will be wanting to turn right too. I'm quick off the mark and don't inconvenience anyone in the right hand lane.
It feels like queue jumping but looking at markings on the pic, there seems to be an expectation that traffic can use both lanes then merge after the first exit(there's no left hand exit, only the lane straight over to rejoin the M2). Am I wrong? The majority wait in the right hand lane but as stated, the exit slip can back up to the main carriageway and this feels unsafe.
Daily commute. I leave the M2 westbound (so on the sliproad approaching the roundabout from the right of the picture). I'm turning right, up to Chatham, like everyone else on the sliproad. Often I'll approach in the right hand lane. But I'm doing so less often.
Today, the slip road was getting full and traffic was just about to start stacking up, stationary onto L1 of the busy M2 . -Always feels like a crash waiting to happen. So I nipped up the empty left hand lane and waited for a gap, mindful of the fact that traffic in the right hand lane will be wanting to turn right too. I'm quick off the mark and don't inconvenience anyone in the right hand lane.
It feels like queue jumping but looking at markings on the pic, there seems to be an expectation that traffic can use both lanes then merge after the first exit(there's no left hand exit, only the lane straight over to rejoin the M2). Am I wrong? The majority wait in the right hand lane but as stated, the exit slip can back up to the main carriageway and this feels unsafe.
captainzep said:
It feels like queue jumping but looking at markings on the pic, there seems to be an expectation that traffic can use both lanes then merge after the first exit(there's no left hand exit, only the lane straight over to rejoin the M2). Am I wrong? The majority wait in the right hand lane but as stated, the exit slip can back up to the main carriageway and this feels unsafe.
I don't know the junction, but looking at this, what you say doesn't sound wrong. Certainly the road markings suggest that both lanes on the exit slip are appropriate for turning right at the roundabout, merging where indicated. I would certainly prefer continuing up the slip road in the clearer lane over joining a queue that's extended back onto the motorway.I'd be aware that drivers to my right might perceive it as queue jumping and so I'd try not to appear aggressive at the merge point.
Thanks.
Although using Google streetview it confirms that some of the markings in the aerial shot have been removed, making it yet more ambiguous.
Anyway, point taken with other traffic. I decide very early whether I put myself in front of traffic on the right or back off and give them priority. To be honest for the vast majority of situations it's possible to get well ahead without any conflict by picking gaps and being positive.
Although using Google streetview it confirms that some of the markings in the aerial shot have been removed, making it yet more ambiguous.
Anyway, point taken with other traffic. I decide very early whether I put myself in front of traffic on the right or back off and give them priority. To be honest for the vast majority of situations it's possible to get well ahead without any conflict by picking gaps and being positive.
Also watch out for bikes as you move across to the right and slot in - definite potential for "conflict" as they may well assume you're going left.As with about 50% of the population you are using the roundabout incorrectly. If you are continuing past the first left hand exit from the roundabout you should approach the roundabout in either the middle or right hand lane, depending on the number of approach lanes. Byusing the left hand lane & then turning right, 3rd exit, you are preventing others who may only wish to join the roundabout at the next exit to you & do 1 junction, turn left, from joining the roundabout until you have past that junction. Expand the argument, if everybody used the left hand lane & there was a continuous flow of traffic joining the roundabout from your junction, nobody else could join the roundabout. I hope you follow my explanation.
Ken Clarke said:
As with about 50% of the population you are using the roundabout incorrectly. If you are continuing past the first left hand exit from the roundabout you should approach the roundabout in either the middle or right hand lane, depending on the number of approach lanes. Byusing the left hand lane & then turning right, 3rd exit, you are preventing others who may only wish to join the roundabout at the next exit to you & do 1 junction, turn left, from joining the roundabout until you have past that junction. Expand the argument, if everybody used the left hand lane & there was a continuous flow of traffic joining the roundabout from your junction, nobody else could join the roundabout. I hope you follow my explanation.
Yes, but that only applies where standard roundabout markings are used. Although ambiguous, the "lane ends" signs on the roundabout suggest that the engineers are expecting traffic to still be two abreast after the exit for the motorway, therefore two lanes for a right turn would seem sensible. In the old markings the "kickover" arrow shunted the traffic from the right to the left!Ken Clarke said:
As with about 50% of the population you are using the roundabout incorrectly. If you are continuing past the first left hand exit from the roundabout you should approach the roundabout in either the middle or right hand lane, depending on the number of approach lanes.
Unless signs or markings indicate otherwise, of course. Which, in this case, they do.Ken Clarke said:
Byusing the left hand lane & then turning right, 3rd exit,
The OP is taking the second exit to turn right.Ken Clarke said:
you are preventing others who may only wish to join the roundabout at the next exit to you & do 1 junction, turn left, from joining the roundabout until you have past that junction.
There are no entrances to the roundabout between where the OP joins it and where he exits it.Ken Clarke said:
Expand the argument, if everybody used the left hand lane & there was a continuous flow of traffic joining the roundabout from your junction, nobody else could join the roundabout. I hope you follow my explanation.
Are you thinking of a the stereotypical roundabout layout shown, for example, in the figure for rule 185? That's not the layout of the OP's roundabout at all. The OP is not using his roundabout incorrectly.As an aside, while it's not applicable in the OP's case, you have my sympathy if you have to suffer anything like as many as 50% of drivers using the outside lane inappropriately on roundabouts you encounter. It's annoying when it happens, but I must be much luckier than you as I see only a tiny minority doing it.
captainzep said:
Ladies and gents, Junction 4 M2.
Ah, the A278. Only a west to north exit from the M2. Your chosen course relies on someone letting you in before the pinch point where the hatchings on the overpass restrict it to a single lane rather than the usual double. Those marking exist to feed the traffic into the right hand lane of the A278. The inner lane at that point is dedicated to traffic coming off the eastbound M2 off ramp.captainzep said:
It feels like queue jumping but looking at markings on the pic, there seems to be an expectation that traffic can use both lanes then merge after the first exit(there's no left hand exit, only the lane straight over to rejoin the M2). Am I wrong? The majority wait in the right hand lane but as stated, the exit slip can back up to the main carriageway and this feels unsafe.
A lot of people might regard it as queue jumping but that isn't logical given that there are still two lanes at the top of the slip road. Other than a driver navigational error error why would anyone take the inner lane only to go straight on back to the M2?If people merged in turn it wouldn't be a major issue but that's not the 'Brtish way'. One of our favourite traits is reducing the carrying capacity of multilane roads wherever and whenever possible. So we widen them at huge expense only to find the traffic simply migrates one lane to the right and the problem continues.
IMHO this demonstrates a good example of part of the concept of advanced driving, that is being able to use skill, experience and a little intelligence to assess each situation and make the right decision.
From the photograph it is reasonable to assume that the vast majority of the traffic leaving the M42 in the way the OP has described will be turning right. There is no exit to the left, and going straight on appears to return to the M42. Consequently the two lanes on the exit sliproad are able to be used for turning right on the roundabout.
There is obviously the need to be aware of the filter into a single lane and so caution will be needed when merging.
Using both lanes of the exit sliproad is likely to increase the flow of traffic off the M42 at that junction, helping all drivers to make progress.
From the photograph it is reasonable to assume that the vast majority of the traffic leaving the M42 in the way the OP has described will be turning right. There is no exit to the left, and going straight on appears to return to the M42. Consequently the two lanes on the exit sliproad are able to be used for turning right on the roundabout.
There is obviously the need to be aware of the filter into a single lane and so caution will be needed when merging.
Using both lanes of the exit sliproad is likely to increase the flow of traffic off the M42 at that junction, helping all drivers to make progress.
Looks to me like they have redesigned part of the road markings to make a single lane on a double lane roundabout. If they extended the center line until it was above the M2, then it would be more obvious to people what the situation was.
Part of the problem is that people don't realise there is no lane for the exit that returns to the M2 because really you wouldn't expect people to do that, therefore both lanes on the slip are used to feed the single lane further around the roundabout.
We have had similar problems on the Block Country route: http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=bilston&hl=en&...
People coming from the Black Country route and wanting to take the A454 would get in the right hand lane. Despite wanting the 1st exit (that wasn't a return to the Black Country Route). And then get upset when they found they were in the wrong lane when going around the roundabout. A slight redesign of the slip road markings has improved things.
If I were the OP and it peeved me. Consider writing to the council and seeing if they will put up some signs clarifying the use of the lanes. I've found the local traffic planner around here very happy to receive feedback on what junctions are causing trouble. (Particularly after they fitted some lights that had people totally confused and jumping reds).
Part of the problem is that people don't realise there is no lane for the exit that returns to the M2 because really you wouldn't expect people to do that, therefore both lanes on the slip are used to feed the single lane further around the roundabout.
We have had similar problems on the Block Country route: http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=bilston&hl=en&...
People coming from the Black Country route and wanting to take the A454 would get in the right hand lane. Despite wanting the 1st exit (that wasn't a return to the Black Country Route). And then get upset when they found they were in the wrong lane when going around the roundabout. A slight redesign of the slip road markings has improved things.
If I were the OP and it peeved me. Consider writing to the council and seeing if they will put up some signs clarifying the use of the lanes. I've found the local traffic planner around here very happy to receive feedback on what junctions are causing trouble. (Particularly after they fitted some lights that had people totally confused and jumping reds).
Ken Clarke said:
As with about 50% of the population you are using the roundabout incorrectly. If you are continuing past the first left hand exit from the roundabout you should approach the roundabout in either the middle or right hand lane, depending on the number of approach lanes.
Maybe this is because the illustration in rule 185 of the highway code shows a car staying in the left hand lane when taking the second exit?DivideBYZero said:
xactly.
The amount of numpties i see using the right lane to straight line a roundabout is scary! It is a miracle that more accidents dont occur considering they dont indicate that they are going straight on and cars entering the roundabout assume they will turn right!!!!bobbylondonuk said:
The amount of numpties i see using the right lane to straight line a roundabout is scary! It is a miracle that more accidents dont occur considering they dont indicate that they are going straight on and cars entering the roundabout assume they will turn right!!!!
Well, IMHO if the car in the left lane is ONLY going left or straight on, then using the right lane in the example above IS valild as the exit is also two lanes.The problem is the numpties that use the left lane to go right to use the third exit...
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