slowing down clutch in or out?

[pits]

Can someone settle a debate I am having with the Old man, he is convinced that all advanced drivers when coming uptown junctions etc take the vehicle out of gear and cost up to the line. I say this is poppycock as out of gear you're not in control of the car.
His defence being police do this as it is cheaper to replace brakes than it is a clutch, I again say poppycock why would the most proficient drivers want to not be in control of the car over the sake of a clutch

[pthelazyjourno]

Do you genuinely say poppycock?

If you take it out of gear, it means taking your hand off the steering wheel to do so...

If you press the clutch, I'd argue that you're more in control.

Then again, I often do tap it into neutral at around 10mph if I'm **definitely** rolling to a stop. Depends what's happening though - if there's a chance that I'll need to keep moving, I'll just use the clutch.

[Classic Grad 98]

I was always taught that coasting = out of control of the vehicle. These days new drivers are told to come to a stop in the gear they approached in, depressing the clutch as late as possible to avoid stalling the engine.
Personally I never coast of of gear but I tend to change down through the gears as I decelerate.

[chris182]

Leave the car in gear as you slow down, and depress the clutch once the revs reach idling point. Take the car out of gear when stationary. Saves fuel, provides engine braking to minimise brake wear, ensures that you have both hands on the wheel and can also drive on again if required. Take the car out of gear when stationary.

That is how I've been taught and it makes a lot of sense as far as I can see.

[Classic Grad 98]

Yes Chris, that was what I was taught too.
My only criticism is that if you're cruising in 4th/5th/6th, you're not going to have any engine braking really.

[shovelheadrob]

The main wear on a clutch is when it is slipping, pulling away or changing down without matching the revs will cause the most wear. On most modern cars, if driven with consideration, the clutch will last for 100,00 miles or more, possibly the lifetime of the car. Knocking the car out of gear means you will have more brake wear as you have just lost your engine braking, coupled with, should you need to apply power immediately for any reason, would deem you to not be in full control of the car. I know my grandad used to have some different ideas about driving, but when he started driving a clutch was a service item that wore out every couple of years, then again it might have just been his driving

[Decky_Q]

definitely use engine braking, coasting=not in control as said.

[CommanderJameson]

Engine braking?

I ought to get one of those cars for which engines are cheaper than brake discs and pads.

Gears are for going, brakes are for slowing.

Exceptions for steep hills and slippery conditions apply. Your mileage may vary. Serving suggestion. The value of your braking may go down as well as up. Class 1 laser hazard.

[pits]

So I am right then, I always slowdown down and change gear when needed for better engine braking, he takes it out of gear at 30+ and coasts to a junction and then puts it in gear to pull off.

Yes I do use the word popoycock and others like dreadful bd

[mybrainhurts]

pits said:

Yes I do use the word popoycock

Hmmmm...

[218g]

pits said:

Can someone settle a debate I am having with the Old man, he is convinced that all advanced drivers when coming uptown junctions etc take the vehicle out of gear and cost up to the line.

Well from the diversity of replies you've had so far in this thread I think you can claim victory in that particular argument . I don't know if posting in this forum defines one as an advanced driver, but whatever the definition, the idea that all of them do exactly the same thing certainly seems poppycock to me .

The topic of what things to do and what order to do them in when coming to a stop (or a near stop) seems to come up a lot. I tend to simply brake, and keep braking until I don't want to slow down any more, putting the clutch down when required, as the speed drops below whatever gear I happen to be in can cope with. If I come to a stop then I come to a stop. If I keep going, then at the point I know what gear I'm going to need I select it, bring the clutch up and drive off.

If I wanted to analyse why I do it that way, I could wonder whether it's because that's what my driving instructor taught me? Or do I do it because it's what the System implies you should do? Or do I support the brakes are cheaper than clutches viewpoint? But to be honest, I think I just do it that way because it's simplest and I find it works.

[MC Bodge]

I slow down in gear, but my diesel doesn't like the rpm dropping too low, so I do have to dip the clutch quite early if I am in 6th. It wouldn't accelerate very well in 6th, but I wouldn't put it into neutral.

pits said:

Yes I do use the word popoycock and others like dreadful bd

poppycock
[pop-ee-kok]
  Origin
pop·py·cock
 
 [pop-ee-kok] Show IPA
noun
nonsense; bosh.
Origin:
1840–50, Americanism ; perhaps < Dutch pappekak, equivalent to pappe- pap1 + kak excrement

Related forms
pop·py·cock·ish, adjective

Synonyms
balderdash, bunk, hogwash, rubbish.

[Fastra]

pits said:

So I am right then, I always slowdown down and change gear when needed for better engine braking, he takes it out of gear at 30+ and coasts to a junction and then puts it in gear to pull off.

Yes I do use the word popoycock and others like dreadful bd

Judging from the replies then no, slight majority in favour of leave in gear, foot off clutch and 'roll' to a halt (obviously dipping clutch before the engine stalls). Once stopped then into neutral and handbrake on.

I do this.

Decky_Q said:

definitely use engine braking, coasting=not in control as said.

My instructor always told me he'd send me the bill if I used his engine for braking once more.

[aizvara]

CommanderJameson said:

Engine braking?

I ought to get one of those cars for which engines are cheaper than brake discs and pads.

Gears are for going, brakes are for slowing.

Exceptions for steep hills and slippery conditions apply. Your mileage may vary. Serving suggestion. The value of your braking may go down as well as up. Class 1 laser hazard.

Out of interest, how much wear and tear does this cause an engine? I wouldn't have thought it was much, but happy to be corrected.

Do you always slow with the brakes, then (and/or clutch disengaged)? Even for slightly slower moving traffic on a motorway, for example?

[Fastra]

aizvara said:

CommanderJameson said:

Engine braking?

I ought to get one of those cars for which engines are cheaper than brake discs and pads.

Gears are for going, brakes are for slowing.

Exceptions for steep hills and slippery conditions apply. Your mileage may vary. Serving suggestion. The value of your braking may go down as well as up. Class 1 laser hazard.

Out of interest, how much wear and tear does this cause an engine? I wouldn't have thought it was much, but happy to be corrected.

Do you always slow with the brakes, then (and/or clutch disengaged)? Even for slightly slower moving traffic on a motorway, for example?

You can agree that revving an engine (or general use of it) will, eventually, wear it out - either clutch, pistons rings, valve guides, etc, etc - these things don't have an infinite life.
So why use the engine for slowing down when you don't need to?

Slow down with brakes (or just lifting off the accelerator covers most motorway situations), leave in gear, then when you're at the point where you need to accelerate again then select the appropriate gear.

[218g]

Fastra said:

aizvara said:

Do you always slow with the brakes, then (and/or clutch disengaged)? Even for slightly slower moving traffic on a motorway, for example?

Slow down with brakes (or just lifting off the accelerator covers most motorway situations)

I don't think the "brakes to slow, gears to go" concept is intended for situations where you can achieve the change in speed you need in the necessary time simply by easing or lifting off the accelerator is it?.

[james_gt3rs]

pthelazyjourno said:

Then again, I often do tap it into neutral at around 10mph if I'm **definitely** rolling to a stop. Depends what's happening though - if there's a chance that I'll need to keep moving, I'll just use the clutch.

I do this usually. Why wear out your left leg when it's not even slightly necessary?

[BertBert]

218g said:

I don't think the "brakes to slow, gears to go" concept is intended for situations where you can achieve the change in speed you need in the necessary time simply by easing or lifting off the accelerator is it?.

It's a really helpful saying that is vital to "advanced drivers". Well it is helpful for the really stupid ones that can't manage independent thinking.

Although I have to agree that "brakes are for slowing and gears are for going, apart from all the times they're not" doesn't scan quite as well.

Hey let's move on to wky acronyms. POWER, POWDER, POWDERY, POWDERYNESSISMIZATION

Ho hum, only a little friday evening fun. No advanced drivers were hurt in the production of this rather woefully painful post.

Bert

[Rostfritt]

CommanderJameson said:

Engine braking?

I ought to get one of those cars for which engines are cheaper than brake discs and pads.

Gears are for going, brakes are for slowing.

Exceptions for steep hills and slippery conditions apply. Your mileage may vary. Serving suggestion. The value of your braking may go down as well as up. Class 1 laser hazard.

How does it wear out your engine? Surely it would be the same wear as driving the short distance you are slowing down. Maybe you should only slow down using the handbrake, no point braking with all 4 wheels when it will stop with just the rear ones. I have always left the car in gear until the revs get too low, going down the gears if coming to a gentle stop. That way if you need to get going again at any point, like if the lights suddenly change, you don't have to work out what gear you should be in, just move your foot over.

The engine is well lubricated and will by turning anyway, the brakes use friction and you consume the pads as you use them.

[218g]

BertBert said:

It's a really helpful saying that is vital to "advanced drivers". Well it is helpful for the really stupid ones that can't manage independent thinking.

Actually, I think it's most helpful as a handy little phrase to try when introducing the concept to someone unfamiliar with it. In which case, whoever's doing the introducing will hopefully a) be introducing it in a situation where it's actually applicable, and b) be in a position to explain the reasoning such that someone who is capable of independent thinking can work out what it's for.

Like most such mantras, if it's taken too vehemently, or taken out of the context of the reasoning behind it and the situation it was intended for, it becomes at best confusing and at worst a subject of ridicule.