Cars accelerating as you overtake (on DCs/Mways)

[timbob]

With my "training for ADI" phase into its 3rd month, I'm finding it a regular problem passing people on motorways.

The usual scenario is approaching a car in lane 2 (either MLMing, or actually overtaking something) doing 60-65mph. I'll usually adjust my speed downwards for a short time to make sure they're cruising at this speed, not just temporarily slowed before deciding whether an overtake is necessary.

If it is, I'll usually make it up to level, or slightly ahead of the car before they realise they're being overtaken and speed up. Sometimes they'll speed right up and clear off at 75+, at other times, they'll hit 70 and leave me stuck in the outside lane - usually with frustrated following drivers who won't understand my reasons for not simply briefly booting it up to 80 to clear the car, and who get even more frustrated when I try to ease off and pull back in (I've actually been undertaken once whilst doing this, by someone with no more than 5 seconds patience!)

Any stories sharing my pain, or any tips?

[MC Bodge]

timbob said:

at other times, they'll hit 70 and leave me stuck in the outside lane - usually with frustrated following drivers who won't understand my reasons for not simply briefly booting it up to 80 to clear the car

....Any stories sharing my pain, or any tips?

Yes, "boot it to 80", but don't do it when you're being examined

Something similar happened on my IAM test. During the de-brief I knew that the examiner knew that I may ordinarily have had the option of "booting it to 80", but the law states that speed limits are not to be exceeded by Joe Public.

[R0G]

If safety means temporariliy exceeding the speed limit then so be it - if on test then state this BEFORE doing it - as for most cases, this will depend on other options available at the time

Many drivers let their speed slide and then wake up to it when another starts to come along side
This is a frequent senario for LGV drivers on duals and motorways but usually involves the car speeding well up towards 70 so the LGV can simply move back to lane 1 - frustrating though it is

[Munter]

timbob said:

Any stories sharing my pain, or any tips?

Yes I feel your pain. It's really common unfortunately.

I'm not IAM or anything but what I tend to to is expect it, then lift off if they start to speed up and pull in behind. They then usually flock off at 70+.

Other options for the MLM type, is stay behind them in lane 1 for a bit. And slow gradually. Often this also makes them slow. Then pull into lane 2 behind then, and on to lane 3 in swift succession and boot it up to 70 and you're past and can pull back into lane 2 in front all within the speed limit.

Problem is often other traffic behind you gets caught up and you don;t get the space or time to dispatch the moron nicely. So in that case the only solution is to fracture the limit slightly to get past, or annoy those behind.

[R0G]

Munter said:

Other options for the MLM type, is stay behind them in lane 1 for a bit. And slow gradually. Often this also makes them slow. Then pull into lane 2 behind then, and on to lane 3 in swift succession and boot it up to 70 and you're past and can pull back into lane 2 in front all within the speed limit.

MLM - steady and certain they were staying there - I pass using lane 1 as it is not illegal to do so

[Munter]

R0G said:

MLM - steady and certain they were staying there - I pass using lane 1 as it is not illegal to do so

Well there is that option yes. But you lose the fun of seeing if you can manipulate another cars speed without harassing them. And would ADI be happy with passing on the left?

[timbob]

Munter said:

Well there is that option yes. But you lose the fun of seeing if you can manipulate another cars speed without harassing them. And would ADI be happy with passing on the left?

I certainly wouldn't do it whilst being examined

[R0G]

timbob said:

I certainly wouldn't do it whilst being examined

I have and passed - M1 north J21 to J21A GOOGLE STREET VIEW
Lane 1 eventually becomes a slip off lane to A46 and vehicles set up in lane 2 very early to continue north on M1 - many LGVs select lane 2 just after J21

[The Black Flash]

R0G said:

If safety means temporariliy exceeding the speed limit then so be it - if on test then state this BEFORE doing it - as for most cases, this will depend on other options available at the time
Many drivers let their speed slide and then wake up to it when another starts to come along side

I used to think they were just being bloody minded, or idiots, but now I'm convinced it's this^^^. I've even experienced doing it myself when overtaken. People naturally start to match speed with a car which passes them, it's a subconcious thing. (The few genuine a-holes excepted).

If speeds are very close, I tend to give an extra 10mph squirt to get past and out of this "subconcious following distance", before returning to my previous speed. You have to "break the tow" as it were.

[gforceg]

The Black Flash said:

I used to think they were just being bloody minded, or idiots, but now I'm convinced it's this^^^. I've even experienced doing it myself when overtaken. People naturally start to match speed with a car which passes them, it's a subconcious thing. (The few genuine a-holes excepted).

If speeds are very close, I tend to give an extra 10mph squirt to get past and out of this "subconcious following distance", before returning to my previous speed. You have to "break the tow" as it were.

I've also noticed the other side of this, where a car which has come whizzing up behind me (and one lane out) seems to slow down and loiter on my shoulder for a few seconds and then blast off again. I'm fairly sure this isn't because my speed has altered more then the usual 2-3mph in normal cruising.

[defblade]

Happens all the time if I'm on cruise control (which I usually set to something not-too-silly). I also get a lot of people who I overtake without trouble but who then speed up, overtake me, drop back in front of me and gently slow down again to the speed they started at.... rinse and repeat...

[SVS]

R0G said:

If safety means temporariliy exceeding the speed limit then so be it - if on test then state this BEFORE doing it - as for most cases, this will depend on other options available at the time

+1. I've done this under advanced test conditions in the car. The police Examiner agreed 100% with me booting up to 80 to overtake, then returning back to 70 after the overtake.

My last RoSPA bike retest reinforced this approach when on test. A minor criticism was that I would have been safer to exceed the speed limit briefly on a particular dual carriageway overtake.

Outside test conditions, I won't hesitate to exceed 70 if it's safer to do so.

From what I've read in Driving magazine, however, I wonder if this approach would be unacceptable to the DSA. Are speed limits completely inflexible on an ADI test? Certainly Mike Frisby has written that the speed limit should be adhered to, even when overtaking, during a DIAmond test.

Edited by SVS on Wednesday 9th November 23:34

[timbob]

SVS said:

+1. I've done this under advanced test conditions in the car. The police Examiner agreed 100% with me booting up to 80 to overtake, then returning back to 70 after the overtake.

My last RoSPA bike retest reinforced this approach when on test. A minor criticism was that I would have been safer to exceed the speed limit briefly on a particular dual carriageway overtake.

Outside test conditions, I won't hesitate to exceed 70 if it's safer to do so.

From what I've read in Driving magazine, however, I wonder if this approach would be unacceptable to the DSA. Are speed limits completely inflexible on an ADI test? Certainly Mike Frisby has written that the speed limit should be adhered to, even when overtaking, during a DIAmond test.

Edited by SVS on Wednesday 9th November 23:34

As far as I've read on the various forums, the speed limits are completely inflexible on the ADI test. One chap in particular got a serious fault (and therefore failed) for hitting 72 on a dual carriageway for a period of only a few seconds before realising, and easing back to 70.

The sad thing was, even though the examiner observed the car's speedo reading 72 (and failed him for it), given most speedometers will over-read by at least a couple of mph at 70, he was most likely entirely within the speed limit.

[WhoseGeneration]

SVS said:

+1. I've done this under advanced test conditions in the car. The police Examiner agreed 100% with me booting up to 80 to overtake, then returning back to 70 after the overtake.

My last RoSPA bike retest reinforced this approach when on test. A minor criticism was that I would have been safer to exceed the speed limit briefly on a particular dual carriageway overtake.

Outside test conditions, I won't hesitate to exceed 70 if it's safer to do so.

From what I've read in Driving magazine, however, I wonder if this approach would be unacceptable to the DSA. Are speed limits completely inflexible on an ADI test? Certainly Mike Frisby has written that the speed limit should be adhered to, even when overtaking, during a DIAmond test.

Edited by SVS on Wednesday 9th November 23:34

This post sums up the problems for those of us who attempt to drive safely, whilst considering how others behave.
The "authorities" have absolute limits though.
Of course, the "authorities" are not able to think sensibly.
We, here, know the true answer.

[R0G]

timbob said:

As far as I've read on the various forums, the speed limits are completely inflexible on the ADI test.

The DSA are good for learners but they are very lacking in regards to real life safe driving

If there ever comes a time that full licence holders are made to have post test assessments then I really hope that it is not the DSA doing them

[timbob]

R0G said:

The DSA are good for learners but they are very lacking in regards to real life safe driving

If there ever comes a time that full licence holders are made to have post test assessments then I really hope that it is not the DSA doing them

Indeed, and agreed they are good for learners. I would go slightly further and say that the DSA system is good for a lot of people on the road - i.e. those who have little aptitude for driving and struggle with awareness (whether through laziness or the way their brain is wired), in that when properly applied the system is pretty foolproof: do all your blind spot checks every time, never cut a corner, never cut a roundabout, never exceed the speed limit.

Of course, for those with more of an aptitude for driving, the DSA system can (I'd imagine) be quite limiting.

I fully intend on taking some (or all) of the more advanced driving qualifications once I'm qualified as an ADI.

[MC Bodge]

timbob said:

the DSA system is good for a lot of people on the road - i.e. those who have little aptitude for driving and struggle with awareness (whether through laziness or the way their brain is wired), in that when properly applied the system is pretty foolproof: do all your blind spot checks every time, never cut a corner, never cut a roundabout, never exceed the speed limit.

Ie. Those people who can't/don't even do those things properly?

[timbob]

MC Bodge said:

Ie. Those people who can't/don't even do those things properly?

Well, given the driving we see every day on the roads, you'd think so!

What I really mean though is that the DSA method seems to be a system by which anyone can safely drive a car.

The more advanced drivers may observe and evaluate the traffic before deciding it is appropriate to straightline a roundabout. A less competent driver, by following the system and NEVER cutting a roundabout, by default, will never cut anyone up on one - regardless of how good they are at their observations.

[Distant]

OP, you will not get away with stretching the limit on your part 2 test. After all, this is a test of not only how you drive, but how you will teach your learners to drive, and it would not do to advocate speeding to complete an overtake to a new driver!

Don't bother with an overtake unless the target vehicle is doing less than 65. If they accelerate when you're alongside them, easing off and dropping in behind is the safest (and legal) thing to do.

[Vaux]

Distant said:

Don't bother with an overtake unless the target vehicle is doing less than 65. If they accelerate when you're alongside them, easing off and dropping in behind is the safest (and legal) thing to do.

So on a Part 2 you wouldn't get a fault under Progress for sitting back?