Use of Indicators -Declining or just me getting older?
Discussion
I have been driving since 1994 and have been doing regular business motorway mileage for the past 10 years.
I've noticed in recent years that a large number of motorists do not indicate when changing lanes into the path of other vehicles on motorways.
(A large number also indicate as they move and quite a few, quite pointlessly, indicate after they have begun changing lanes)
My hypothesis is that drivers feel very safe in their cars and do not expect other cars to ram into the back of them or fear it happening.
Is this something that has become more common or am I just being nostalgic?
I've noticed in recent years that a large number of motorists do not indicate when changing lanes into the path of other vehicles on motorways.
(A large number also indicate as they move and quite a few, quite pointlessly, indicate after they have begun changing lanes)
My hypothesis is that drivers feel very safe in their cars and do not expect other cars to ram into the back of them or fear it happening.
Is this something that has become more common or am I just being nostalgic?
Edited by MC Bodge on Saturday 29th October 14:17
Perhaps it’s indicative of generally more selfish attitudes? Personally, I couldn’t give a hoot if people indicate or not, perhaps one of the reasons motorways see so relatively few incidents (compared with all other road types) is that the actions of others are fairly predictable. When you think about it, there are times when you know someone is going to pull out before they do!!
There are of course those who consider using their indicators as their god given right to barge straight in. Perhaps the most civilised option would be to look, assess, identify a safe gap and signal if you really feel it’s necessary
(Oh fck, I’ve just kick started this month’s signalling thread
)
There are of course those who consider using their indicators as their god given right to barge straight in. Perhaps the most civilised option would be to look, assess, identify a safe gap and signal if you really feel it’s necessary
(Oh fck, I’ve just kick started this month’s signalling thread
)R0G said:
Laziness and no enforcement to counter it
Hello Rog ..... I'm not picking on you (we were dissagreeing on another thread), what enforcement, and of what, would you like to see ?I haven't noticed any reduction, or increase, of indicator use.
On motorways I rarely indicate to move left (unless I consider I'm entering the braking distance of a hgv near an exit, as they always seem to be up each others botties when you're approaching an exit), I will only indicate to move right if I feel I need to inform someone I'm intending to move right.
Unless I'm having a bad day, my movements shouldn't bother anyone, and if they are reasonably observant, should be obvious.
Nigel Worc's said:
Hello Rog ..... I'm not picking on you (we were dissagreeing on another thread), what enforcement, and of what, would you like to see ?
I haven't noticed any reduction, or increase, of indicator use.
I have seen a significant reduction of necessary and apropriate use of the indicator from those that do not seem to have then fitted to those those seem to use them for everythingI haven't noticed any reduction, or increase, of indicator use.
More police on the roads would be nice start and perhaps a dedicated section for driver enforcement ..... but we can all dream .....
Debate is always good so dissagreeing is not an issue
I agree that indicating left when moving back over on a motorway isn't necessary but items to do it if there are others around, just to wake them up to what I'm doing.
It does rather make me angry when people selfishly and, in some instances, dangerously don't bother to indicate on roundabouts especially when it's an unusual manoeuvre for the particular roundabout I.e. all the way round (180 degrees) or a very minor junction
It does rather make me angry when people selfishly and, in some instances, dangerously don't bother to indicate on roundabouts especially when it's an unusual manoeuvre for the particular roundabout I.e. all the way round (180 degrees) or a very minor junction
Well yes, you shouldn't 100% trust indicators (I've seen people indicate right to exit a roundabout) but it's a pretty good indication (no pun intended) of what the person is doing, as is their positioning. Living in a city, I'd never get anywhere if I didn't trust indicators to a certain extent
X
Provided you have taken proper observation and there is a safe gap into which you can move , without affecting the driving plans of other road users , then there is no need for a signal .
Conversely , if your intended lane change would cause another driver to alter position or speed , such that you feel they would benefit from a signal , your lane change is inappropriate and you should wait for a safe gap .
MC Bodge said:
I've noticed in recent years that a large number of motorists do not indicate when changing lanes into the path of other vehicles
No one should ever be 'changing lanes into the path of other vehicles' .Provided you have taken proper observation and there is a safe gap into which you can move , without affecting the driving plans of other road users , then there is no need for a signal .
Conversely , if your intended lane change would cause another driver to alter position or speed , such that you feel they would benefit from a signal , your lane change is inappropriate and you should wait for a safe gap .
jas xjr said:
People who do not indicate at roundabouts wind me up and it slows down the flow of traffic
The thing that annoys me at roundabouts is the increasing prevalence , mainly by young drivers , to give incorrect and in some cases dangerously misleading signals .This usually arises as someone intending to go straight ahead trafficates right on the approach , then gives a breakaway signal after passing the previous exit .
If I am approaching from the opposite direction and see an oncoming driver trafficating right , I will interpret that they intend to turn right , across my path , and will give way as required - if they then take an exit such that I need not have stopped , this is most annoying to say the least .
Worse , is the situation where I follow this driver onto the roundabout : the other driver tells me they are turning right , often adopting a course to the right or even taking the right hand lane onto the roundabout , while I intend going straight ahead , adopting course to the nearside , or left hand lane , perhaps drawing level with them or even passing them since my straight ahead manouvre can be carried out slightly faster than their right turn , only to find them 'change their mind' and veer towards me in an attempt to take the same exit . This situation can actually present danger of a collision .
Thankfully , I am wary of this possibility , anticipate it and give such drivers a wide berth as well as being ready with horn or/and brakes , so have never actually been hit by one of these errant drivers .
Sadly , I have to conclude that this practice may be the result of teaching by some novice driving schools involving a 'dumbing down' of the proceedure for approaching roundabouts .
I take the view that no signals are preferable to incorrect and misleading ones .
Pontoneer said:
No one should ever be 'changing lanes into the path of other vehicles' .
Provided you have taken proper observation and there is a safe gap into which you can move , without affecting the driving plans of other road users , then there is no need for a signal .
Conversely , if your intended lane change would cause another driver to alter position or speed , such that you feel they would benefit from a signal , your lane change is inappropriate and you should wait for a safe gap .
I think that works well in the ideal world, nice quite roads for example. However in the world of rush hour on the A3/M25 etc, there is definitely a middle ground. So when drivers need to get to the left for their exit, you need them to indicate so you can take appropriate action and work cooperatively in the situation. There isn't going to be a safer gap, so indicating very much has its place there.Provided you have taken proper observation and there is a safe gap into which you can move , without affecting the driving plans of other road users , then there is no need for a signal .
Conversely , if your intended lane change would cause another driver to alter position or speed , such that you feel they would benefit from a signal , your lane change is inappropriate and you should wait for a safe gap .
Bert
Pontoneer said:
Sadly , I have to conclude that this practice may be the result of teaching by some novice driving schools involving a 'dumbing down' of the proceedure for approaching roundabouts .
IMHO, a PDI or newly qualified ADI are likely to be the people with the most up to date knowledge of road rules regulations and procedures. Why do you think it would be in their interests to teach potentially dangerous actions? In my experience those that signal right past every junction until they get to the one they want (even if it is straight ahead)tend to be older drivers and even amongst those, I have only found rare occurrences.
There could, of course be a problem with an inexperienced driver not sure of which exit to take and therefore making late decisions. But that shouldn't really cause any problems because the rest of us are experienced enough to anticipate the mistakes of others.
I only say that because it does seem to be mainly young ( and therefore recently qualified) drivers I see doing it and , significantly , a number of driving school cars with students under tuition !
Either the instructors are teaching wrongly , or this is some hare-brained idea filtering down from above ?
I am not the only one to have commented on this as there has been mention of it on other forums .
I know it is wrong , being at variance not only with what I was taught but with proceedures laid down in Roadcraft .
Either the instructors are teaching wrongly , or this is some hare-brained idea filtering down from above ?
I am not the only one to have commented on this as there has been mention of it on other forums .
I know it is wrong , being at variance not only with what I was taught but with proceedures laid down in Roadcraft .
Pontoneer said:
I only say that because it does seem to be mainly young ( and therefore recently qualified) drivers I see doing it and , significantly , a number of driving school cars with students under tuition !
Either the instructors are teaching wrongly , or this is some hare-brained idea filtering down from above ?
I am not the only one to have commented on this as there has been mention of it on other forums .
I know it is wrong , being at variance not only with what I was taught but with proceedures laid down in Roadcraft .
I can't say I've seen that much of it. but there again, I don't trust indicators anyway. As I said, could be lack of confidence, knowledge of where they are going? I suspect over reliance of Sat Nav by drivers who have never got used to driving without them may also play a part.Either the instructors are teaching wrongly , or this is some hare-brained idea filtering down from above ?
I am not the only one to have commented on this as there has been mention of it on other forums .
I know it is wrong , being at variance not only with what I was taught but with proceedures laid down in Roadcraft .
I'd be very suprised if an ADI actually taught their pupils to do this, but there again there are some really crap ones out there.
Pontoneer said:
X
Provided you have taken proper observation and there is a safe gap into which you can move , without affecting the driving plans of other road users , then there is no need for a signal .
Conversely , if your intended lane change would cause another driver to alter position or speed , such that you feel they would benefit from a signal , your lane change is inappropriate and you should wait for a safe gap .
This post begs the question: MC Bodge said:
I've noticed in recent years that a large number of motorists do not indicate when changing lanes into the path of other vehicles
No one should ever be 'changing lanes into the path of other vehicles' .Provided you have taken proper observation and there is a safe gap into which you can move , without affecting the driving plans of other road users , then there is no need for a signal .
Conversely , if your intended lane change would cause another driver to alter position or speed , such that you feel they would benefit from a signal , your lane change is inappropriate and you should wait for a safe gap .
"Have you ever driven on a busy urban motorway at rush-hour?"
Indicating the intention to change lanes when there are a lot of vehicles around you allows time for other drivers to accommodate your intention. Failing to indicate requires other drivers to take action to avoid the vehicle that just 'moves'. In many cases, yes, it can be predicted when a vehicle is about to change lanes, but not always. It is helpful and courteous to everyone involved and contributes to the harmony/flow of the road network if some sort of notice of intent is given where appropriate.
Indicating left on a quiet motorway is rarely required, but this does depend upon the situation.
Motorways are relatively safe considering how many vehicles use them, but considering that everybody is travelling in the same direction and there are relatively few 'hazards', there are still a fair few collisions. Suddenly switching lanes can't be helping.
I also have an issue with people failing to indicate or indicating wrongly at roundabouts.
Pontoneer said:
No one should ever be 'changing lanes into the path of other vehicles' .
Provided you have taken proper observation and there is a safe gap into which you can move , without affecting the driving plans of other road users , then there is no need for a signal .
Conversely , if your intended lane change would cause another driver to alter position or speed , such that you feel they would benefit from a signal , your lane change is inappropriate and you should wait for a safe gap .
Are you quoting this from a book or is that your actual take on it? Are you saying that you never ever cause other road users to have to slow down when changing lanes?Provided you have taken proper observation and there is a safe gap into which you can move , without affecting the driving plans of other road users , then there is no need for a signal .
Conversely , if your intended lane change would cause another driver to alter position or speed , such that you feel they would benefit from a signal , your lane change is inappropriate and you should wait for a safe gap .
In an ideal world this is a good theory, but on some motorways in some conditions you would never be able to make progress if you didn't indicate and move out. There are far too many people who quite happily go down lane 3 at 90mph without considering that other people may need/want to pull out. If this was the case I would not hesitate to pull out (indicating) and proceed at 70mph. I'm certainly not saying I would pull out straight in front of them, but my actions may cause them to have to slow down.
Having been on the road for 40 + years i can say it has always been the same.
In due course i have been trained in "defensive driving"..
Thats including the ADI stuff. PCV and Institute of Advanced drivers..
There will always be the selfish,ignorant,yobbish,moron and so on driver around ,so never take what another driver is doing to be predictable.
It would help in other matters if anyone who wanted to obtain a driving license had a course in what it is like to be another road user...Including pedestrans,and bicycle users . There's lots of Mummies around who have forgotten what it is like to walk up the shops or take the children to school..But perhaps thats another topic. Until you try to negociate a situation on foot or cycle and drivers don't use indicators!
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