Advanced driving

[pthelazyjourno]

Have any of you guys had advanced driving lessons, without the aim of passing the test?

Would the institutions or people giving the lessons see that as a waste of their time?

I'd like to pick up some more tips on becoming a better driver, but don't give two hoots about a piece of paper or a test to tell me that I've lived up to certain criteria.

I've already had lessons on other things - car control, wet weather handling, snow and ice, skid pans, that sort of thing, and intend to continue down that route, but I like the idea of picking up tips for observation and other areas I can improve.

Not fussed on learning about steering / gear changes etc, as I've either been taught other ways, I change depending on conditions (I tend to push / pull with steering in town at low speeds when indicators are in use a lot for instance, while crossing hands when on a country run - I still believe it's a more efficient way of steering, just not so well suited to frequent indicating), or I often drive to have fun (heel and toe etc) - to be honest it's more the theory side of things that interest me.

So yeah. If you teach advanced driving, would you mind if somebody comes to you wanting lessons, but with the goal of picking up better observation skills, rather than to pass a test?

Cheers
Philip

[anonymous-user]

A few members of our roadar group do just that. No interest in test, pay 2 quid a year and have as much or as little tuition as they want

[Nigel Worc's]

I don't "observe" anymore (IAM for teach!).

My group would have done this without issue, if it's what you wanted.

Me ????? I'd take the piece of paper as proof that I'd obtained the standard, at least on that day, and enjoy any benefits it brings me (it's done me ok on insurance over the years).

Good luck

[SVS]

Hi, I'd recommend www.RideDrive.co.uk or Cadence or one of the High Performance Club's 'gatekeepers' for what you want.

One of these could be ideally suited to your background, experience and interest.

I too have done ice driving, various things on track, etc. As you will, I got a lot out of advanced road driving instruction. Good fun too!

[S. Gonzales Esq.]

pthelazyjourno said:

Have any of you guys had advanced driving lessons, without the aim of passing the test?

That sounds like an ADUK driving day - driving discussion and improvement, but no test or fixed style. You'll need to join to see the relevant part of the forum though.

Alternatively, if you have the budget, there are any number of highly qualified coaches out there who will provide whatever tuition you want.

pthelazyjourno said:

So yeah. If you teach advanced driving, would you mind if somebody comes to you wanting lessons, but with the goal of picking up better observation skills, rather than to pass a test?

My IAM group could probably cope with this, but you'd want to get one of the more flexible observers. There's a chance that some wouldn't be able to decouple the higher level observation skills from the stylistic elements. On the other hand of course, you could try the whole package before deciding which bits aren't for you.

[MC Bodge]

Interesting question from the OP. I have a similar view.

[R0G]

The IAM used to have a system where an associate could join the local group and pay for the books but would then leave the choice of paying for the test and national membership for later if they wished to but they scrapped that in favour of an all in one or nothing system - silly numpties IMO

If a driver was to ask me to assist them in becoming a better driver outside the remit of the IAM then I would agree to do it but it would require having a break during the drive at a T-bar!!

As an IAM senior observer my personal remit is to help improve the safe driving of a motorist and I don't care how that is achieved

[SVS]

MC Bodge said:

Interesting question from the OP. I have a similar view.

Hi, I'd recommend options with a police Class 1 coach (i.e. an expert professional, as opposed to a volunteer 'observer'):

• Ideally www.RideDrive.co.uk or equivalent
• IAM DriveCheckPlus, which only costs 35 quid: www.iam.org.uk/drivecheckplus.html
• RoSPA Experienced Driver Assessment: www.rospa.com/drivertraining/courses/experienced-n...

HTH

Edited by SVS on Sunday 30th October 22:23

[R0G]

pthelazyjourno said:

So yeah. If you teach advanced driving, would you mind if somebody comes to you wanting lessons, but with the goal of picking up better observation skills, rather than to pass a test?

You near Leicester?

If yes then when do you want to go on the first drive?

ROG
IAM SENOIR OBS

[pthelazyjourno]

Thanks for all the advice chaps.

R0G said:

You near Leicester?

If yes then when do you want to go on the first drive?

ROG
IAM SENOIR OBS

I'm just the other side of Market Harborough actually.

I'll get back to you when I've put my car back together again - need to change the manifold and a couple of wheel bearings.

Thanks for the offer.

Philip

[R0G]

pthelazyjourno said:

Thanks for all the advice chaps.

R0G said:

You near Leicester?

If yes then when do you want to go on the first drive?

ROG
IAM SENOIR OBS

I'm just the other side of Market Harborough actually.

I'll get back to you when I've put my car back together again - need to change the manifold and a couple of wheel bearings.

Thanks for the offer.

Philip

No probs - contact me when ready

[WhoseGeneration]

pthelazyjourno said:

Have any of you guys had advanced driving lessons, without the aim of passing the test?

Would the institutions or people giving the lessons see that as a waste of their time?

I'd like to pick up some more tips on becoming a better driver, but don't give two hoots about a piece of paper or a test to tell me that I've lived up to certain criteria.

I've already had lessons on other things - car control, wet weather handling, snow and ice, skid pans, that sort of thing, and intend to continue down that route, but I like the idea of picking up tips for observation and other areas I can improve.

Not fussed on learning about steering / gear changes etc, as I've either been taught other ways, I change depending on conditions (I tend to push / pull with steering in town at low speeds when indicators are in use a lot for instance, while crossing hands when on a country run - I still believe it's a more efficient way of steering, just not so well suited to frequent indicating), or I often drive to have fun (heel and toe etc) - to be honest it's more the theory side of things that interest me.

So yeah. If you teach advanced driving, would you mind if somebody comes to you wanting lessons, but with the goal of picking up better observation skills, rather than to pass a test?

Cheers
Philip

So, just technique has been your concern up to now?
AD isn't really about technique but attitude.
Pursued properly, on public roads, AD can seem very slow.
Because observation and planning means easy progress without any necessity to exploit vehicle limits.

[MC Bodge]

WhoseGeneration said:

So, just technique has been your concern up to now?
AD isn't really about technique but attitude.
Pursued properly, on public roads, AD can seem very slow.
Because observation and planning means easy progress without any necessity to exploit vehicle limits.

I think that 'Advanced Driving' is quite a narrow definition and is not as different and exclusive as some people appear to believe.

As I've said before, good driving isn't something that you switch on and off,
"I shall now do a few miles of Advanced Driving, followed by 10 miles of Basic Driving" and is completely analogue.

Good driving need not be slow, but good driving takes into account the conditions, hazards visibility and vehicle dynamics. At times I possibly drive slower than the typical driver because I try to be aware of conditions (as a consequence of being a bike rider), but at other times I drive more quickly -"Making progress" being the Police euphemism, I believe. Then again, I don't have a car IAM certificate, just a bike one, so can I be considered to be Advanced driving or just driving?

Increasing a driver's knowledge and experience is a good thing and it should be encouraged, by whatever means.

ps. Learning to ride a motorbike after passing DAS prompted a big improvement in my driving. I'd always been interested in cars and driving, but the finesse, observation and reading of road conditions required in riding a bike well changed my outlook for the better.

Edited by MC Bodge on Thursday 3rd November 09:13

[R0G]

I like to think of it as the difference between progression by thinking rather than progression by power

I've lost count of the number of times I have got from A to B earlier than another who simply tried the power and go for it system

[MC Bodge]

R0G said:

I like to think of it as the difference between progression by thinking rather than progression by power

I've lost count of the number of times I have got from A to B earlier than another who simply tried the power and go for it system

I think that comes as a side-effect.

I enjoy pedalling my wife's simple Fabia 1.2 along and travelling cross-country/continent at a reasonable lick in the estate car without upsetting the family (-the ultimate test of smoothness...). Staying off the brakes is my tip.



In words of an X Factor contestant, My journey:


Personally, as a younger man I liked driving: on the beach, in forests, giving my car a bit of welly, getting it out of shape, wrestling it back under control, stamping on the brakes, hand-braking it, yomping, etc. which was my idea of going fast and bumped into things occasionally.... I went through tyres and brakes quickly. I ignored my Dad's suggestions about driving smoothly and not on-the-brakes. As I got older, wiser and had better/faster cars I became a bit smoother and had many fewer 'moments'. I still made progress, but was less frantic.

I then learned to ride a bike and took a lot of interest in riding technique. I really enjoyed trying to master riding a bike (IAM was worth doing to confirm that I was doing most things right. Much of the information is readily available in books and in the www and reading up and practising beforehand was effective). Simultaneously, I took a new look at driving and have enjoyed trying to master the various techniques.

One thing I have always been reasonably good at is 'observation' or just 'noticing things' (due to a generally inquisitive disposition), even if my handling skills were not great. I'm not sure if good observation can be taught.

Here endeth the lesson.

Edited by MC Bodge on Thursday 3rd November 13:59

[MC Bodge]

SVS said:

or one of the High Performance Club's 'gatekeepers'

This intrigues me.

[R0G]

MC Bodge said:

SVS said:

or one of the High Performance Club's 'gatekeepers'

This intrigues me.

Expensive !!

[MC Bodge]

SVS said:

or one of the High Performance Club's 'gatekeepers'

This no longer intrigues me

[S. Gonzales Esq.]

A friend and I shared a day with a Gatekeeper last year, and felt it was worth the £150 we each paid.

On a cost per hour basis it doesn't compare well with the IAM Skill For Life course (£139, less if you catch the Xmas offer price), but it's horses for courses.

I don't agree that you can't teach observation - after all, it's a core element of what IAM observers do.

[R0G]

S. Gonzales Esq. said:

I don't agree that you can't teach observation - after all, it's a core element of what IAM observers do.

Making a game out of it can help - who sees the hazard first