Best way to drive an autobox?
Discussion
By way of background until last week the only automatic cars I had driven were an old metro and a 1994 landrover disco both of which were owned by different mates at uni and I had a quick 'go' around the campus.
We have to use pool cars at work and I normally manage to get either the BMW 325D or Audi A4 Estate which has a 2.0d - both cars are manuals. There is a convertible mini but I am 6ft 3" and look ridiculous driving it. I mention these as I run Landrovers and an old 306 as a hack and the pool cars are my only experience of 'proper' cars.
The other day the only car I could get was one of the upper echelon loaners - namely an Audi A6 which had a 3 litre diesel coupled to an autobox.
What is the best way to drive this car (or any modern automatic) even in sport mode I found it quite sluggish especially when trying to accelerate on the motorway and when in drive it was often in 5th or 6th gear even at 34 - 40 mph which necessitated a lot of 'knock downs' on the gear lever to get it into 3rd or 4th to enable me to keep up with traffic in town ,oving through lights.
Thoughts?
We have to use pool cars at work and I normally manage to get either the BMW 325D or Audi A4 Estate which has a 2.0d - both cars are manuals. There is a convertible mini but I am 6ft 3" and look ridiculous driving it. I mention these as I run Landrovers and an old 306 as a hack and the pool cars are my only experience of 'proper' cars.
The other day the only car I could get was one of the upper echelon loaners - namely an Audi A6 which had a 3 litre diesel coupled to an autobox.
What is the best way to drive this car (or any modern automatic) even in sport mode I found it quite sluggish especially when trying to accelerate on the motorway and when in drive it was often in 5th or 6th gear even at 34 - 40 mph which necessitated a lot of 'knock downs' on the gear lever to get it into 3rd or 4th to enable me to keep up with traffic in town ,oving through lights.
Thoughts?
Norse_mann said:
Nope, it's best to assume I have no knowledge of the workings or use of auto boxes and start from base principles.
Floor it. Somewhere near full throttle it'll 'kick down' the best gear for accelerating at the current road speed. Personally I'll often use the gear hold positions (often numbered 4 3 2 or similar) to select the ratios manually to save waiting for the box to react.Could that have been a 'multitronic' box? - I think all FWD Audis, bar the A3, use the multitronic now, with only the quattros getting TipTronic.
In which case, it will feel like it's not doing a lot, but when you look at the speedometer, you'll be going a load faster than you thought you would be.
In which case, it will feel like it's not doing a lot, but when you look at the speedometer, you'll be going a load faster than you thought you would be.
With acknowledgement to Julian at Ride Drive...one of the tools I have used in Observing drivers of auto boxes...
[I]""One case that I have personal experience of illustrates how effective the efficient use of an auto-box can be. A client we served about two years ago was a chauffeur to the director of a large business conglomerate. He was on a three-day programme and had brought along the ‘company’ car. The vehicle was a BMW 750 stretched and armoured limousine with automatic transmission. The car was reminiscent of one of the Royal Navy’s finest aircraft carriers, probably weighing in at about the same tonnage and with the same handling characteristics. I was running the job on this particular day, his first practical day on the road. As we left the urban environment from which we started, and headed onto a nice playful B-class road I said to Nick, “Okay Nick, let’s see a nice progressive drive keeping it all nice and smooth.”
As we went through the de-restriction signs, the auto box kicked down a cog and we accelerated up to 60 before reaching the first of many bends, with many different gradients to come as well. There was much huffing and puffing coming from the drivers’ side of the car as Nick literally fought with the beast along the road. He was finding it very much like hard work and after letting him suffer for about 10 minutes I suggested he might find it easier to manually select third gear, and to remain locked in that gear until the road environment changed and told us it was appropriate to do otherwise.
The difference it made was fantastic. Instead of endlessly coasting and running on, the car now actually decelerated when Nick lifted his right foot. Also, by introducing acceleration sense and with it advanced road positioning, he was now able to set the car up for bends and corners often without having to brake – still pushing along quite nicely too. He was no longer fighting with the car. He was making the car work for him, blending with it and becoming more part of it.
Another example of effective driving with an auto-box is the overtaking manoeuvre. Many a driver has been heard to complain, or at least comment, that the kick-down with an automatic takes too long to happen and is a nuisance. You can actually eliminate kick down all together and get the same response from the car as you would if it had a manual transmission. All you have to do is decide what gear the car would select, at your current road-speed, to accelerate past the vehicle you are going to overtake and then select that same gear manually by moving the selector to 2 or 3. Now when you do go for the overtake the car will respond at the required rate immediately.
Just side-stepping for a moment, it never ceases to amaze me the number of drivers that you see going for an overtake on a two-way road in fourth or fifth gear. You can spot them a mile away as they are the ones that take about ten days to get past anything and then get flashed by the oncoming driver who has had to make room for them to get back in. That signals another problem. How many drivers out there were never taught how to overtake?
Going back to HMS Ark Royal for a moment, and again arriving at an urban environment, Nick was encouraged to manually select and hold second gear. Immediately the lumbering great beast became so completely manageable it was as easy to drive as a car many time smaller.
If you listen to your car when it speaks to you, you will come to know its capabilities. That way you can tune into it and become part of it. By choosing the right options there is so much less stress involved in the act of driving. Not only that, there is less stress on the vehicle which means lower running costs, and you remain in control. It can even make driving more fun, too.""[I]
I might add when I bought the X Type I asked Jag Technical about using the 3rd and 4th holds as I had with several previous Citroen autos - no problem...and stay in gear when stopped at lights...moving to N causes more wear!...
Driving with John Lyon I noticed that he matched revs when changing down with the J Gate in my X Type...I have practised this for many years...sounds nice and smooths things out!
I accept that there is a difference between what we look for and what the OP is asking about driving autos and what us punters interested in 'further education' might look for.
Just my $0.10
[I]""One case that I have personal experience of illustrates how effective the efficient use of an auto-box can be. A client we served about two years ago was a chauffeur to the director of a large business conglomerate. He was on a three-day programme and had brought along the ‘company’ car. The vehicle was a BMW 750 stretched and armoured limousine with automatic transmission. The car was reminiscent of one of the Royal Navy’s finest aircraft carriers, probably weighing in at about the same tonnage and with the same handling characteristics. I was running the job on this particular day, his first practical day on the road. As we left the urban environment from which we started, and headed onto a nice playful B-class road I said to Nick, “Okay Nick, let’s see a nice progressive drive keeping it all nice and smooth.”
As we went through the de-restriction signs, the auto box kicked down a cog and we accelerated up to 60 before reaching the first of many bends, with many different gradients to come as well. There was much huffing and puffing coming from the drivers’ side of the car as Nick literally fought with the beast along the road. He was finding it very much like hard work and after letting him suffer for about 10 minutes I suggested he might find it easier to manually select third gear, and to remain locked in that gear until the road environment changed and told us it was appropriate to do otherwise.
The difference it made was fantastic. Instead of endlessly coasting and running on, the car now actually decelerated when Nick lifted his right foot. Also, by introducing acceleration sense and with it advanced road positioning, he was now able to set the car up for bends and corners often without having to brake – still pushing along quite nicely too. He was no longer fighting with the car. He was making the car work for him, blending with it and becoming more part of it.
Another example of effective driving with an auto-box is the overtaking manoeuvre. Many a driver has been heard to complain, or at least comment, that the kick-down with an automatic takes too long to happen and is a nuisance. You can actually eliminate kick down all together and get the same response from the car as you would if it had a manual transmission. All you have to do is decide what gear the car would select, at your current road-speed, to accelerate past the vehicle you are going to overtake and then select that same gear manually by moving the selector to 2 or 3. Now when you do go for the overtake the car will respond at the required rate immediately.
Just side-stepping for a moment, it never ceases to amaze me the number of drivers that you see going for an overtake on a two-way road in fourth or fifth gear. You can spot them a mile away as they are the ones that take about ten days to get past anything and then get flashed by the oncoming driver who has had to make room for them to get back in. That signals another problem. How many drivers out there were never taught how to overtake?
Going back to HMS Ark Royal for a moment, and again arriving at an urban environment, Nick was encouraged to manually select and hold second gear. Immediately the lumbering great beast became so completely manageable it was as easy to drive as a car many time smaller.
If you listen to your car when it speaks to you, you will come to know its capabilities. That way you can tune into it and become part of it. By choosing the right options there is so much less stress involved in the act of driving. Not only that, there is less stress on the vehicle which means lower running costs, and you remain in control. It can even make driving more fun, too.""[I]
I might add when I bought the X Type I asked Jag Technical about using the 3rd and 4th holds as I had with several previous Citroen autos - no problem...and stay in gear when stopped at lights...moving to N causes more wear!...
Driving with John Lyon I noticed that he matched revs when changing down with the J Gate in my X Type...I have practised this for many years...sounds nice and smooths things out!
I accept that there is a difference between what we look for and what the OP is asking about driving autos and what us punters interested in 'further education' might look for.
Just my $0.10
henrycrun said:
As we are approaching GMT again, can I assume that simply using the handbrake at the lights while staying in D, is perfectly OK ?
If not the last in the queue and stopping for more than a few seconds it should be - no brake lightsWhy dazzle the driver queuing behind ????
would any drive put their rear fog lights on when queuing, of course not, but they are roughly the same as brake lights !!
R0G said:
henrycrun said:
As we are approaching GMT again, can I assume that simply using the handbrake at the lights while staying in D, is perfectly OK ?
If not the last in the queue and stopping for more than a few seconds it should be - no brake lightsWhy dazzle the driver queuing behind ????
would any drive put their rear fog lights on when queuing, of course not, but they are roughly the same as brake lights !!
If you put the hand brake on whilst in D, and then take your foot off the brake... what happens? (geniune question, as I don't know about autos)
I assumed you have to put it in P to use the handbrake?
mrmr96 said:
R0G said:
henrycrun said:
As we are approaching GMT again, can I assume that simply using the handbrake at the lights while staying in D, is perfectly OK ?
If not the last in the queue and stopping for more than a few seconds it should be - no brake lightsWhy dazzle the driver queuing behind ????
would any drive put their rear fog lights on when queuing, of course not, but they are roughly the same as brake lights !!
If you put the hand brake on whilst in D, and then take your foot off the brake... what happens? (geniune question, as I don't know about autos)
I assumed you have to put it in P to use the handbrake?
What should happen in your example is the car stays still, a weak handbrake will allow the car to creep so it's not a time to switch off & concentrate on picking your nose.
Some autos (BMW fitted ZF boxes for sure) have no cooling when sat on tickover in park or neutral, and should be kept in drive (or reverse) at all times when the engine is running.
Check your handbook/with your local dealer for whatever make.
If my brake lights ever dazzle anyone, then apologies, but that's the way it is, I'm not cooking my gearbox !
As for driving auto boxes, as already said, there are just far to many different types for a general guide.
I was lucky enough to have some training with my local IAM groups auto guru when I had my first one, I struggled to drive it to standard at first, now I love them
Check your handbook/with your local dealer for whatever make.
If my brake lights ever dazzle anyone, then apologies, but that's the way it is, I'm not cooking my gearbox !
As for driving auto boxes, as already said, there are just far to many different types for a general guide.
I was lucky enough to have some training with my local IAM groups auto guru when I had my first one, I struggled to drive it to standard at first, now I love them
Nigel Worc's said:
Some autos (BMW fitted ZF boxes for sure) have no cooling when sat on tickover in park or neutral, and should be kept in drive (or reverse) at all times when the engine is running.
If my brake lights ever dazzle anyone, then apologies, but that's the way it is, I'm not cooking my gearbox !
So what is wrong with keeping it in D and applying the handbrake?If my brake lights ever dazzle anyone, then apologies, but that's the way it is, I'm not cooking my gearbox !
R0G said:
So what is wrong with keeping it in D and applying the handbrake?
Well, if you've been driving in a spirited fashion with heavy breaking then applying the handbrake can bugger the discs if they are still hot.But so can sitting on the footbrake.
And putting it in park can cook the gearbox.
So, the safest suggestion is to just ignore the red lights and keep going.
Snowboy said:
R0G said:
So what is wrong with keeping it in D and applying the handbrake?
Well, if you've been driving in a spirited fashion with heavy breaking then applying the handbrake can bugger the discs if they are still hot.But so can sitting on the footbrake.
And putting it in park can cook the gearbox.
So, the safest suggestion is to just ignore the red lights and keep going.
At times, (recently started & cats not hot, facing downhill in drive etc), the handbrake will not hold the car whilst in drive.
So ..... footbrake it is, and I don't care what the IAM say !
Eggman said:
Nigel Worc's said:
Some autos (BMW fitted ZF boxes for sure) have no cooling when sat on tickover in park or neutral,
Are you thinking of the ZF 4HP22? If so, it's not a cooling problem - it's that the front clutch pack wears out if you rev it up in neutral. Normal idling is fine.I do some electronic maintenance work at ZF in Nottingham, they tell me it's cooling, and I've had the advice from the handbook, and my local BMW dealer not to leave the car in neutral or park with the engine running.
I'm just passing the information on when the subject crops up.
One of my neighbours is a BMW techie ..... he says the same thing, in the workshop they lift them clear of the floor and engage drive if they need to work on them with the engine running.
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