Discussion
I ended up having to apply my brakes this morning a bit quicker and harder than I would normally like .
My morning run to work takes me across Glasgow on the M8 , down the recently completed section of M74 and off at the Raith Intrrchange for Hamilton . The skies were bright and clear , but the road surface was wet with the light drizzle that was still falling and some spray was being thrown up by traffic .
Nearing the end of the new section of M74 there were signs advising a hold up on the M8 , then a tailback of standing traffic on the exit lane for the M73 and slower moving traffic in lane 1 , so I found myself in lane 2 making reasonable progress .
A short distance on , the M74 opens back out to three lanes and a fair amount of traffic coming down the slip from the M73 in two lanes and taking up lanes one and two of the three lane M74 , so I am now passing them in lane three , maintaining a steady 70 with a safe gap in front .
My exit is now a couple of miles ahead , so I am starting to look for a way over to the nearside ; both other lanes are fairly busy so I proceed down lane 3 for a mile or so until I find a large and safe enough gap between two artics to move over into .
Once in lane two we are passing even slower traffic then I find a gap to move into with about 300 yds ahead to the next vehicle .
No sooner had I joined lane one than the brake lights of the van ahead come on , and I start to brake gently - expecting that he is slowing for the exit , still half a mile ahead . Next , I see the tail of a car ahead of him slew sideways across the hard shoulder , then snap straight again , and I realise the traffic hidden in front of the van has stopped , and the van is braking HARD .
Thankfully , I still have about 200 yds available , but had to brake pretty hard myself , bringing ABS into operation on the damp surface for a second or so before pulling up safely - then checking my mirror , heart in mouth , to see if I was about to be rear ended . I was ready to floor it and escape down the hard shoulder , but could see the van I had moved over ahead of seconds earlier slowing safely behind me .
I felt bad because I had not seen the queue of traffic in lane one ( a tailback here is unusual ) because of the other traffic in lane two blocking my view , and because of the larger vehicle ( Sprinter van ) ahead of me in lane one ; also because I was probably concentrating too much on making sure I was safely past the slow van I pulled in ahead of during the brief period I might have seen further down lane one .
Just goes to show how suddenly things can change on the road . I count myself lucky that I managed to avoid a bump that could have so easily caught me out , and take away from the incident that perhaps my observation was not all it ought to have been this morning . Had I seen the queuing traffic earlier , I might not have needed to brake so hard , or I might have chosen to stay in lane two and carry on to the next exit .
My morning run to work takes me across Glasgow on the M8 , down the recently completed section of M74 and off at the Raith Intrrchange for Hamilton . The skies were bright and clear , but the road surface was wet with the light drizzle that was still falling and some spray was being thrown up by traffic .
Nearing the end of the new section of M74 there were signs advising a hold up on the M8 , then a tailback of standing traffic on the exit lane for the M73 and slower moving traffic in lane 1 , so I found myself in lane 2 making reasonable progress .
A short distance on , the M74 opens back out to three lanes and a fair amount of traffic coming down the slip from the M73 in two lanes and taking up lanes one and two of the three lane M74 , so I am now passing them in lane three , maintaining a steady 70 with a safe gap in front .
My exit is now a couple of miles ahead , so I am starting to look for a way over to the nearside ; both other lanes are fairly busy so I proceed down lane 3 for a mile or so until I find a large and safe enough gap between two artics to move over into .
Once in lane two we are passing even slower traffic then I find a gap to move into with about 300 yds ahead to the next vehicle .
No sooner had I joined lane one than the brake lights of the van ahead come on , and I start to brake gently - expecting that he is slowing for the exit , still half a mile ahead . Next , I see the tail of a car ahead of him slew sideways across the hard shoulder , then snap straight again , and I realise the traffic hidden in front of the van has stopped , and the van is braking HARD .
Thankfully , I still have about 200 yds available , but had to brake pretty hard myself , bringing ABS into operation on the damp surface for a second or so before pulling up safely - then checking my mirror , heart in mouth , to see if I was about to be rear ended . I was ready to floor it and escape down the hard shoulder , but could see the van I had moved over ahead of seconds earlier slowing safely behind me .
I felt bad because I had not seen the queue of traffic in lane one ( a tailback here is unusual ) because of the other traffic in lane two blocking my view , and because of the larger vehicle ( Sprinter van ) ahead of me in lane one ; also because I was probably concentrating too much on making sure I was safely past the slow van I pulled in ahead of during the brief period I might have seen further down lane one .
Just goes to show how suddenly things can change on the road . I count myself lucky that I managed to avoid a bump that could have so easily caught me out , and take away from the incident that perhaps my observation was not all it ought to have been this morning . Had I seen the queuing traffic earlier , I might not have needed to brake so hard , or I might have chosen to stay in lane two and carry on to the next exit .
Edited by Pontoneer on Wednesday 14th September 13:30
It does cause many an accident. I'm more used to the phenomenon on the M9 just after Newbridge, heading away from Edinburgh. 3 lane motorway, but at rush hour, lane 1 can be at a standstill with traffic in a queue for the Forth Road Bridge turn off.
Of course, people see it as appropriate to go down lane 2 at 70mph, then slam on the anchors as lane 1 becomes the off slip, causing bother for the rest of lane 2 and 3. I think it may not be long until there's a 50 limit on this stretch of motorway as there have been a few shunts here recently.
Of course, it would be too difficult and expensive to properly sort out the traffic management in busy periods, so let's just make the road slower
http://www.google.co.uk/maps?ll=55.947181,-3.40850...
Of course, people see it as appropriate to go down lane 2 at 70mph, then slam on the anchors as lane 1 becomes the off slip, causing bother for the rest of lane 2 and 3. I think it may not be long until there's a 50 limit on this stretch of motorway as there have been a few shunts here recently.
Of course, it would be too difficult and expensive to properly sort out the traffic management in busy periods, so let's just make the road slower
http://www.google.co.uk/maps?ll=55.947181,-3.40850...
Having lived in West Lothian and worked in Edinburgh for many years , I know that road all too well .
Since the underpass below Newbridge roundabout has a low speed restriction as does , IIRC , the slip coming onto the M9 from the roundabout , it is indeed a wonder it is not 50 up to the Kirkliston/Queensferry exit .
I also remember problems on the exit road if , intending to turn right at the end for Kirkliston , the right lane was often blocked by idiots queuing to turn left at the end and allowing no one to get past .
Since the underpass below Newbridge roundabout has a low speed restriction as does , IIRC , the slip coming onto the M9 from the roundabout , it is indeed a wonder it is not 50 up to the Kirkliston/Queensferry exit .
I also remember problems on the exit road if , intending to turn right at the end for Kirkliston , the right lane was often blocked by idiots queuing to turn left at the end and allowing no one to get past .
Made the same mistake on my motorbike. Looked into left lane, indicated, looked over left shoulder, started the lane change before I had re-assessed my foreward view, and BANG straight into the back of a van.
I was lucky to be uninjured and had things been a little different I would've been lying across the middle lane of the A3 in rush hour traffic...
I was lucky to be uninjured and had things been a little different I would've been lying across the middle lane of the A3 in rush hour traffic...
However, Pontoneer does consider himself lucky to have avoided a bump.
I think I'll exercise a bit more caution in future (slow down a bit!) as I've almost been caught out myself in similar situations.
Surely using the ABS on damp surfaces isn't Plan A, R0G?
Would it be our fault if we shunted someone fishtails in front? Can't reasonably expect that to happen
I think I'll exercise a bit more caution in future (slow down a bit!) as I've almost been caught out myself in similar situations.
Surely using the ABS on damp surfaces isn't Plan A, R0G?
Would it be our fault if we shunted someone fishtails in front? Can't reasonably expect that to happen
I just felt that I had made a poor judgement call by moving into a lane , albeit with a reasonable stretch of clear road ahead , then , seconds later , practically having to stand on the brakes to avoid something I perhaps ought to have seen .
I know I didn't hit anything , but it was hardly a smooth standard of driving nor would it likely have impressed an examiner on a test .
I did , at least , pull up in a straight line , unlike the other driver I had seen seconds earlier braking over the same surface .
The feeling I took away was that it was a lapse of concentration and poor observation on my part which led to the incident . There were , at most , half a dozen vehicles tailing back beyond the exit slip onto lane one of the motorway . Having been rear ended in the past , this is not somewhere I would choose to be . Once trapped there , though , with a near constant stream of traffic ( including HGV's ) thundering by in lane two , getting back out from standstill would not have been a safe option , even in a car reasonably quick off the mark .
I know I didn't hit anything , but it was hardly a smooth standard of driving nor would it likely have impressed an examiner on a test .
I did , at least , pull up in a straight line , unlike the other driver I had seen seconds earlier braking over the same surface .
The feeling I took away was that it was a lapse of concentration and poor observation on my part which led to the incident . There were , at most , half a dozen vehicles tailing back beyond the exit slip onto lane one of the motorway . Having been rear ended in the past , this is not somewhere I would choose to be . Once trapped there , though , with a near constant stream of traffic ( including HGV's ) thundering by in lane two , getting back out from standstill would not have been a safe option , even in a car reasonably quick off the mark .
Motorway traffic is sometimes very hard to call. Particularly if you're on a long journey, quite often it bunches suddenly without apparent cause and it's something that has caught me more than once.
It's not pleasant, the quick realisation you need to brake hard, whilst fitting in a RVM check...
It's not pleasant, the quick realisation you need to brake hard, whilst fitting in a RVM check...
simoid said:
However, Pontoneer does consider himself lucky to have avoided a bump.
I think I'll exercise a bit more caution in future (slow down a bit!) as I've almost been caught out myself in similar situations.
Surely using the ABS on damp surfaces isn't Plan A, R0G?
Would it be our fault if we shunted someone fishtails in front? Can't reasonably expect that to happen
He did stop in time though which proves that there was enough spaceI think I'll exercise a bit more caution in future (slow down a bit!) as I've almost been caught out myself in similar situations.
Surely using the ABS on damp surfaces isn't Plan A, R0G?
Would it be our fault if we shunted someone fishtails in front? Can't reasonably expect that to happen
could it have been improved within reason? - probably but would have to be there at the time in order to answer that
waremark said:
If one is ever with another advanced driver when things go wrong, it is interesting to talk about whether the passenger had seen the problem before the driver.
Excellent point, although it might be relevant that the passenger is not having to pedal as well.Easier to be an o(O)bserver?
Witness armchair Formula One critics.
Or, perhaps, differing perceptions?
It happened to me once - I was in lane three of the M5, nowhere near a junction, progressing, when suddenly the outside lane, and just the outside lane, stopped dead. I'd left enough of a gap to pull up (no ABS on that car so I always left a bit of "wriggle room" but I ended up at the back of the queue and I don't think I have ever been quite so scared. Luckily a big enough gap opened up and I was able to get over into lane one safely. There wasn't any reason for the big stop, I think it may have just been someone misjudging the speed of a car in front and causing a brake ripple.
waremark said:
If one is ever with another advanced driver when things go wrong, it is interesting to talk about whether the passenger had seen the problem before the driver.
I must admit that if I am sitting passenger with a driver I trust ( there aren't many ) , I am more than happy to read , close my eyes ...... anything but watch the road !Pontoneer said:
waremark said:
If one is ever with another advanced driver when things go wrong, it is interesting to talk about whether the passenger had seen the problem before the driver.
I must admit that if I am sitting passenger with a driver I trust ( there aren't many ) , I am more than happy to read , close my eyes ...... anything but watch the road !Pontoneer said:
...and I start to brake gently - expecting that he is slowing for the exit, half a mile ahead...
Most accidents happen only a few miles from a person's home or workplace, on roads they generally know well.It's natural to make assumptions based upon local knowledge and/or experience, but you're not always going to be right!
simoid said:
Is that not because most people do most of their driving near their home? 
Exactly. Complacency can set in and people begin to pay less attention than they would. In cases like the OP's, if someone on the road around me is braking and I can't see for certain why, I'm at least preparing to do the same as soon as possible, probably by covering the brake from that moment until I've seen what's the cause.simoid said:
Is that not because most people do most of their driving near their home?
Might well be. I've never seen anyone mention the statistics about whether the proportion of accidents that happen on roads the driver is familiar with is greater or less than the proportion of miles drivers drive on familiar roads. More accidents happen on familiar roads, but do more accidents per mile driven happen on familiar roads?218g got my point, 10PS didn't 
I do at least 95% of my annual miles on roads I'm 'familiar with.' Most of my family and mates are the same I believe.
Saying most accidents happen on roads people are familiar with is like saying most accidents happen when it's cloudy (in my part of the world anyway!)
I do at least 95% of my annual miles on roads I'm 'familiar with.' Most of my family and mates are the same I believe.
Saying most accidents happen on roads people are familiar with is like saying most accidents happen when it's cloudy (in my part of the world anyway!)
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