Nearly squashed by lorry! What could I do differently?

[timbob]

Interesting situation here. I'm training to become an ADI, and am quite new to "completely by the book" driving, and irritation it seems to cause other road users.

The situation today - A road, NSL, changes to 50mph, then to 40mph downhill. A large tipper lorry (perhaps from a local quarry) caught me up in the 60 limit(!) and tailgated, closing to perhaps only one car length in the 50mph zone, and sitting even closer in the 40mph zone. I could only see the grille of the truck in my rear view mirror.

There is a short extra right turn only lane in the centre of the road, but this is fenced and bollarded to prevent cutting into the lane early. Approaching traffic meant I couldn't turn immediately, but would have to wait. The short length of this lane necessitates slowing in the main carriageway before turning into the right turn lane.

I indicated in PLENTY of time, aware that the lorry may want to drop back to preserve momentum, but he stayed close. He got closer and closer as I slowed, and just as I passed the bollard and went to turn into the turning lane, the front of the lorry suddenly dipped in the mirror, he swerved around my left, and gave me a full blast of the horn, and fingers.

My indicator bulb is fine (I checked at the weekend, and again once I got home today). Initially I thought he was just being an idiot, driving far too close and got caught out by me taking a steadier pace into the turn lane than he thought I would.

Upon reflection though, I wonder if he was so close he couldn't see the rear of my car, and couldn't even see I was indicating - perhaps he could only see my roof? If this situation was to occur on a test (either advanced driving, or the DSA part 2 test for PDIs), would I be justified in wanting to briefly accelerate away from the front of the lorry so he could see my indicator? Perhaps arm signals would be more useful? Or, might you be justified in explaining to the examiner that you think the tightness of the right turn lane means slowing in the path of the lorry to make the turn is too dangerous, and you are taking the decision to carry on ahead?

Any input welcome!

Edited by timbob on Monday 12th September 18:35

[R0G]

Tipper drivers !! paid on a bonus scheme which encourages them to do stupid things

Next time do a 'ROG' if it gets that close - slow down by 1 mph then another 1 mph and so on until you have virtually stopped - if it don't overtake then use your accelerator power to lose it

Seems like it was so close that the driver could not see your indicator

As an Ex trucker, ex LGV instructor and current advanced driving observer for LGVs then I have the right to say that lorry driver is a ********** ******* ****** ****** ****** ******

[DocSteve]

I think the solution would have been to slow down very gradually as above, whilst indicating, and make it virtually impossible for the driver to hit you unless he is either driving at you deliberately or has fallen asleep with his foot on the gas. It might frustrate him even more but an accident is unlikely to ensue.

Speeding up to get away and show him your indicator could work but if there are potential hazards ahead that might require you to decelerate rapidly a rear shunt will become even more likely. These hazards could include a car emerging from the junction you were wanting to turn into and pulling into your "safety net".

[Pontoneer]

Slowing down gradually , combined with giving a hand signal to emphasise the already given trafficator one seems to me the best idea .

Hand signals for " I am slowing down " , followed by " I intend to turn right " .

You could also report his bad driving to the traffic commissioner , who might have a catalogue of complaints and who can revoke the operator licence of someone who is not a fit and proper person to hold it .

[ScoobyChris]

Tbh, if someone was that close with the speed limit dropping, I'd be looking to get them past me as soon as possible and pulling over in the first available spot. Whether that would be approved for an AD exam, I have no idea, but sacrificing "progress" for "safety" works for me

Chris

[R0G]

ScoobyChris said:

Tbh, if someone was that close with the speed limit dropping, I'd be looking to get them past me as soon as possible and pulling over in the first available spot. Whether that would be approved for an AD exam, I have no idea, but sacrificing "progress" for "safety" works for me

Chris

It would be approved for AD test -safety first - no exceptions

[davepoth]

Pontoneer said:

Slowing down gradually , combined with giving a hand signal to emphasise the already given trafficator one seems to me the best idea .

Hand signals for " I am slowing down " , followed by " I intend to turn right " .

You could also report his bad driving to the traffic commissioner , who might have a catalogue of complaints and who can revoke the operator licence of someone who is not a fit and proper person to hold it .

I can think of one or two other hand signals I might use.

Seriously though, the only other thing to do is the one sentence that sums up the entire Highway Code - "Slow down, and be prepared to stop"

If he's not leaving a two second gap, slow down until the gap he's leaving is two seconds. That may mean you stop, but at least it's safe.

[7mike]

OP, forget about Pt2 (best of luck btw), how would you deal with this when it's one of your pupils in the driving seat?

[timbob]

7mike said:

OP, forget about Pt2 (best of luck btw), how would you deal with this when it's one of your pupils in the driving seat?

I'd hope first of all that nobody would drive so dangerously behind a driving school car with a pupil on a lesson!

If they did however, and I came across a dangerous tailgating scenario with such a large and slow to stop vehicle as a lorry, I think I would abandon any such
possible right hand turn that necessitates slowing in the main driving lane, and carry on, directing the pupil to pull in at the first safe point encountered.

Some attention would be needed - talking to make sure the pupil isn't feeling intimidated and that they don't do something daft.

I'd be wary of slowing and slowing for fear of antagonising the tailgater further. If they're of the mindset of treating a learner in such a way, they might not be averse to hopping out at the next junction and coming banging on the window - something I'd defintely not want to subject a pupil to if at all possible!

I think one of the things I will find hardest to explain to my prospective pupils is just how dangerously some people drive on the roads for no benefit whatsoever!!

[Distant]

timbob said:

7mike said:

OP, forget about Pt2 (best of luck btw), how would you deal with this when it's one of your pupils in the driving seat?

I'd hope first of all that nobody would drive so dangerously behind a driving school car with a pupil on a lesson!

I've a feeling you're in for a nasty shock. Don't expect any respect from other drivers when you're teaching. You'll get grief on a regular basis.

7mike said:

If they did however, and I came across a dangerous tailgating scenario with such a large and slow to stop vehicle as a lorry, I think I would abandon any such possible right hand turn that necessitates slowing in the main driving lane, and carry on, directing the pupil to pull in at the first safe point encountered.

I think you've hit the nail on the head there. If you were slowing gradually and tipper man wasn't, I'd abandon the turn and keep going, looking for somewhere to pull in safely and let him pass taking the company name and reg no when he does. The examiner on your pt 2 would be well aware of what was happening, and you would be commended for it, if it really was that close.

Good luck on your part 2, who are you training with?

[timbob]

Distant said:

I think you've hit the nail on the head there. If you were slowing gradually and tipper man wasn't, I'd abandon the turn and keep going, looking for somewhere to pull in safely and let him pass taking the company name and reg no when he does. The examiner on your pt 2 would be well aware of what was happening, and you would be commended for it, if it really was that close.

Good luck on your part 2, who are you training with?

Yes - I'm fully expecting to have a lot of grief to deal with, I'm getting myself used to that fact!

I'm training with an instructor in the village, who's an old family friend. He has a very analytical style, and is a great teacher, I'm feeling I'm making good progress, and understanding all the changes I'm having to make to my driving style.

When it comes to final preparation for my part 2 and part 3, I'll go with the local independent instructor school he trained with.

[R0G]

timbob said:

Yes - I'm fully expecting to have a lot of grief to deal with, I'm getting myself used to that fact!

I'm training with an instructor in the village, who's an old family friend. He has a very analytical style, and is a great teacher, I'm feeling I'm making good progress, and understanding all the changes I'm having to make to my driving style.

When it comes to final preparation for my part 2 and part 3, I'll go with the local independent instructor school he trained with.

How long ago did you pass the DSA B test?

[Distant]

timbob said:

When it comes to final preparation for my part 2 and part 3, I'll go with the local independent instructor school he trained with.

Can I ask which school? I've some contacts in your area. PM me if you like.

[yellowjack]

timbob said:

Interesting situation here. The situation today - A road, NSL, changes to 50mph, then to 40mph downhill. A large tipper lorry (perhaps from a local quarry) caught me up in the 60 limit(!)

Am I the only one wondering what the hell is wrong with this statement. Is the speed limit for a "large tipper lorry" on a single carriageway NSL road not 40mph EVERYWHERE. This really highlights a problem with fixed traffic enforcement cameras which are triggered by vehicle speed detection apparatus. LGV/HGV drivers can ignore them at their leisure in a NSL section, despite travelling at 33.3r% above THEIR posted limit. People who drive in this manner in such large vehicles deserve to loose both their license and their livelihood for a considerable period of time. Disgusting driving, and very sad that you would have to even consider abandoning a planned manoeuvre to safely avoid such an aggressive fool. Personally, I would have been tempted to slow to EXACTLY 40mph (gradually) and then point obviously at any NSL repeater signs that I encountered, but this is almost definitely NOT the ideal way to de-conflict such a situation.

[7mike]

yellowjack said:

Am I the only one wondering what the hell is wrong with this statement. Is the speed limit for a "large tipper lorry" on a single carriageway NSL road not 40mph EVERYWHERE. This really highlights a problem with fixed traffic enforcement cameras which are triggered by vehicle speed detection apparatus. LGV/HGV drivers can ignore them at their leisure in a NSL section, despite travelling at 33.3r% above THEIR posted limit. People who drive in this manner in such large vehicles deserve to loose both their license and their livelihood for a considerable period of time. Disgusting driving, and very sad that you would have to even consider abandoning a planned manoeuvre to safely avoid such an aggressive fool. Personally, I would have been tempted to slow to EXACTLY 40mph (gradually) and then point obviously at any NSL repeater signs that I encountered, but this is almost definitely NOT the ideal way to de-conflict such a situation.

Stay out of Derbyshire mate. I used to feel safe driving on wide open NSL single carriageways. Now they are all 50mph an lgv in the boot is an ever present danger. I avoid Derbyshire now!

[R0G]

yellowjack said:

Am I the only one wondering what the hell is wrong with this statement. Is the speed limit for a "large tipper lorry" on a single carriageway NSL road not 40mph EVERYWHERE. This really highlights a problem with fixed traffic enforcement cameras which are triggered by vehicle speed detection apparatus. LGV/HGV drivers can ignore them at their leisure in a NSL section, despite travelling at 33.3r% above THEIR posted limit.

Perhaps you should do some more research as to whether the fixed cams reset to a lower limit for large vehicles as they approach them..............

[LongLiveTazio]

Just a general observation and thought it should go here rather than starting a new thread: is HGV lane discipline becoming worse? Been travelling up/down the M6 quite recently at varying times of the day and I'm convinced I'm seeing more 'selfish' lane discipline than previous, i.e. the perennial 1mph crawl up-hill to overtake and the like; very swift lane-change manoeuvres forcing people to put the anchors on (as it's done regardless of velocity in the middle lane); tailgating of cars in moderate speed traffic (i.e. temporary 50mph zones); using the hard shoulder to take a junction if there's a queue of traffic.

I appreciate car drivers do this also but when you're a professional with 44 tons behind you it's a bit scary and I can honestly say I haven't seen a single traffic car in a good few thousand miles over the past couple of months. Bit depressing.

[R0G]

LongLiveTazio said:

Just a general observation and thought it should go here rather than starting a new thread: is HGV lane discipline becoming worse? Been travelling up/down the M6 quite recently at varying times of the day and I'm convinced I'm seeing more 'selfish' lane discipline than previous, i.e. the perennial 1mph crawl up-hill to overtake and the like; very swift lane-change manoeuvres forcing people to put the anchors on (as it's done regardless of velocity in the middle lane); tailgating of cars in moderate speed traffic (i.e. temporary 50mph zones); using the hard shoulder to take a junction if there's a queue of traffic.

I appreciate car drivers do this also but when you're a professional with 44 tons behind you it's a bit scary and I can honestly say I haven't seen a single traffic car in a good few thousand miles over the past couple of months. Bit depressing.

Unfortunately it only takes a few LGV drivers doing something wrong to make a BIG impact on how they are all perceived by others - their size makes them doing numpty things almost impossible to miss

[LongLiveTazio]

R0G said:

Unfortunately it only takes a few LGV drivers doing something wrong to make a BIG impact on how they are all perceived by others - their size makes them doing numpty things almost impossible to miss

What I meant was that I see it happening more and more often and not from foreign drivers. Always held Stobart in fairly high regard due to their image but have even seen one of theirs coming down a hard shoulder illegally recently. I still don't really understand why someone would want to overtake another HGV going *literally* 1mph slower in rush hour. It does not matter and all it does is inconvenience everyone else.

[218g]

LongLiveTazio said:

I still don't really understand why someone would want to overtake another HGV going *literally* 1mph slower in rush hour.

Don't you? I think I do. If I catch someone going 1 mph slower that I want to go, it's much more likely that I'll decide I want to get past than slow down to their speed, rush hour or otherwise. Of course, being in a car not an LGV, I have the luxury of being able to overtake them at greater than 1mph speed differential.