Signals: Why would you want to know?
Discussion
You are travelling along a single carriageway approaching a crossroads – there is a stationary vehicle, waiting to pull out, at the nearside junction of the crossroads - you have priority.
You are going straight ahead across the crossroads; the driver of the waiting vehicle sees you and puts on a signal to either turn left or to turn right. The signal will be for you as there are no other road users present.
Bearing in mind that the driver of the waiting vehicle thinks he is benefitting you by putting on a signal, what use do you make of the information obtained from his signal, whether it’s to turn left or to turn right? Would it make any difference to the way you use the information from the signal if, instead of going straight ahead, you were intending to turn either left or right at the crossroads?
Where this is going is this… If you were the driver waiting at the crossroads and the only other road user was the approaching vehicle, which has priority …why would you give a signal?
I have been advised on a number of occasions by class 1 police drivers to always give a signal when I'm in the situation of waiting at a junction or crossroads as described above ...but, I don't know why. The only response I get from the class 1's is that it will help the other driver ..but they can't explain how.
You are going straight ahead across the crossroads; the driver of the waiting vehicle sees you and puts on a signal to either turn left or to turn right. The signal will be for you as there are no other road users present.
Bearing in mind that the driver of the waiting vehicle thinks he is benefitting you by putting on a signal, what use do you make of the information obtained from his signal, whether it’s to turn left or to turn right? Would it make any difference to the way you use the information from the signal if, instead of going straight ahead, you were intending to turn either left or right at the crossroads?
Where this is going is this… If you were the driver waiting at the crossroads and the only other road user was the approaching vehicle, which has priority …why would you give a signal?
I have been advised on a number of occasions by class 1 police drivers to always give a signal when I'm in the situation of waiting at a junction or crossroads as described above ...but, I don't know why. The only response I get from the class 1's is that it will help the other driver ..but they can't explain how.
johnao said:
Where this is going is this… If you were the driver waiting at the crossroads and the only other road user was the approaching vehicle, which has priority …why would you give a signal?
A number of thoughts spring to mind.I always indicate regardless of traffic, that way you never place yourself in the position of not indicating, in case you have missed another road user or padestrian [pillar blindspot]. You might have done all your usual checks, but its always possible to have missed something, or the situation has rapidly changed from the point when you chose not to indicate. It really is so much easier to just indicate!
From the driver's point of view who has priority, he won't see if you are indicating left, so if he can't see a righthand indicator, he must assume you could be going in any direction left, straight over, or bulb broke/forgot/can't be arsed to indicate right. Indicating right at the junction will help him plan.
Often, your indication will prompt another driver to indicate as well, which they may choose not to do normally, if you hadn't set the example. Meaning, if the car with priority then indicates left into your road, you can plan early if moving right.
Indicators, so safe and simple, why do so many people think they are such a chore to use?
Edited by pacman1 on Monday 5th September 21:17
pacman1 said:
From the driver's point of view who has priority, he won't see if you are indicating left, so if he can't see a righthand indicator, he must assume you could be going in any direction left, straight over, or bulb broke/forgot/can't be arsed to indicate right. Indicating right at the junction will help him plan.
But the question is, how will it help him plan?Dr Jekyll said:
pacman1 said:
From the driver's point of view who has priority, he won't see if you are indicating left, so if he can't see a righthand indicator, he must assume you could be going in any direction left, straight over, or bulb broke/forgot/can't be arsed to indicate right. Indicating right at the junction will help him plan.
But the question is, how will it help him plan?Dr Jekyll said:
pacman1 said:
He can definately expect you to pull across his path if you haven't seen him. That's it, as I can see.
Whereas without a signal, there is merely a strong possibility, and if there is a left turn signal there is a smaller possibility.What difference does it really make?
However, from a trained police driver's point of view -with the priority-, are we not venturing into the realms of TED?
It is probably minimal information for joe public with the priority, but a valuable nugget of information to a trained driver travelling at speed through the cross roads.
His point of view: emerging driver, no indicator. If he hasn't seen me and pulls out going straight over, I go in front or behind. If he turns left, I overtake. Turning right, hit the anchors, go behind, providing he doesn't panic!
Edited by pacman1 on Monday 5th September 23:48
johnao said:
Where this is going is this… If you were the driver waiting at the crossroads and the only other road user was the approaching vehicle, which has priority …why would you give a signal?
I wouldn't.What the driver with priority really wants to know is that you will not pull out in front of him. How can you give him comfort about this?
El Jack said:
1. Force of a good habit.
2. Possibility that I may have missed a pedestrian or other road user, allowing them to react to my signalling of intention.
3. Increased visibility (another flashing light)
Mostly the first though...
Those could all be reasons you might decide to signal, but the OP's question was specifically about how signalling might help the oncoming driver on the priority road. I don't think 1 or 2 help with that. 3 might, but only if you're signalling right 2. Possibility that I may have missed a pedestrian or other road user, allowing them to react to my signalling of intention.
3. Increased visibility (another flashing light)
Mostly the first though...
.I would not advocate a signal for the sceanrio you describe,as I have the same opinion as you,who will benefit and why will they benefit,I am a class 1 police driver and also an examiner for IAM and to be honest,I find it hard to believe that if as you say,you have been given the advice by lots of class 1s when you say this can you put a figure on it please.
Stefluc
Stefluc
I would not advocate a signal for the sceanrio you describe,as I have the same opinion as you,who will benefit and why will they benefit,I am a class 1 police driver and also an examiner for IAM and to be honest,I find it hard to believe that if as you say,you have been given the advice by lots of class 1s when you say this can you put a figure on it please.
Stefluc
Stefluc
Bacon Is Proof said:
waremark said:
I wouldn't.
What the driver with priority really wants to know is that you will not pull out in front of him. How can you give him comfort about this?
Drive to the standard that we have all been taught.What the driver with priority really wants to know is that you will not pull out in front of him. How can you give him comfort about this?
a) signalling left
b) not signalling because they intend to go straight over
c) not signalling because they have forgotten to even think about signalling
d) not signalling because they have considered the situation and concluded a signal is not needed
Does knowing that they are definitely in one of those four categories (but you've no idea which one) give you some reassurance that they won't pull out in front of you?
218g said:
If you are the approaching driver on the priority road and you see no signal on the waiting car, you know they are either
a) signalling left
b) not signalling because they intend to go straight over
c) not signalling because they have forgotten to even think about signalling
d) not signalling because they have considered the situation and concluded a signal is not needed
Does knowing that they are definitely in one of those four categories (but you've no idea which one) give you some reassurance that they won't pull out in front of you?
In combination with attitude of car, direction of front wheels and physical behaviour of driver, yes.a) signalling left
b) not signalling because they intend to go straight over
c) not signalling because they have forgotten to even think about signalling
d) not signalling because they have considered the situation and concluded a signal is not needed
Does knowing that they are definitely in one of those four categories (but you've no idea which one) give you some reassurance that they won't pull out in front of you?
Some reassurance.
Bacon Is Proof said:
218g said:
If you are the approaching driver on the priority road and you see no signal on the waiting car, you know they are either
a) signalling left
b) not signalling because they intend to go straight over
c) not signalling because they have forgotten to even think about signalling
d) not signalling because they have considered the situation and concluded a signal is not needed
Does knowing that they are definitely in one of those four categories (but you've no idea which one) give you some reassurance that they won't pull out in front of you?
In combination with attitude of car, direction of front wheels and physical behaviour of driver, yes.a) signalling left
b) not signalling because they intend to go straight over
c) not signalling because they have forgotten to even think about signalling
d) not signalling because they have considered the situation and concluded a signal is not needed
Does knowing that they are definitely in one of those four categories (but you've no idea which one) give you some reassurance that they won't pull out in front of you?
Some reassurance.
But actually, I think that misses the point a bit anyway. If I'm on the major road, I don't think I care whether they are going left, right or straight on. I want to know that they've seen me and they're no going to pull out. I'm not sure being able to deduce which way they want to turn reassures me about that at all. On the other hand, physical behaviour of the driver, as well as eye contact, could reassure me - although the way I pictured the question they are initially too far away for me to see anything like that.
The only other factor might be timing. If I'm waiting in the side road, maybe putting the signal on just as the other car comes into view - at the point I think they will have just seen me and be trying to establish how steady I look - might help let them know I have seen them. Only works if I'm going left though
.Bacon Is Proof said:
If they see me and signal, then it is at least some indication that they might be able to drive within DSA standards. If they don't signal then it is an indication that they are not driving within DSA standards.
If everyone drove to the former I'd be very happy.
The DSA standard is to give a signal when it would help another road user, not whenever you see another road user.If everyone drove to the former I'd be very happy.
So I am waiting at a junction to turn right, a car is approaching from my right with priority, not indicating, so should be going straight past me.
If I indicate, and the other car is intending to turn left, but has forgotton to indicate, seeing my indicator may jog their little grey cells into gear, and indicate, thus allowing me to proceed out of the side road.
If I indicate, and the other car is intending to turn left, but has forgotton to indicate, seeing my indicator may jog their little grey cells into gear, and indicate, thus allowing me to proceed out of the side road.
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