Leaner drivers and commentary.
Discussion
One of my father's friends has an 18 year old lad. He's been learning to drive for a year now and just doesn't seem to be 'getting' it. The lad isn't an overly confident chap anyway and was seriously thinking about giving up a few months ago.
So my father (both he and I are senior observers, although he has been for much longer than me!) offered to take him out and see if he could help build his confidence between lessons. I tagged along and true to his father's word, the lad's driving was appalling. It dawned on my father when we were back at home talking that the lad had NO idea about what actually happens to make a car go. For example, he knew the results of raising the clutch, but didn't know how it worked.
So firstly we talked him through what actually happens to the car as you drive and use the various controls. This gave him somewhat of a basic understanding, although didn't really seem to improve his driving. Not really knowing what else to try, my father asked him to tell him what he was doing as he was driving along: sort of a simplified commentary. As we explained the things he had to look out for, and that every action when driving is a reaction to something else he began to increase his commentary of his own accord, and within days his driving was becoming much more confident, and he was judging stops much better.
Anyway, he passed his test today. With 0 minor faults. He really feels that the single thing that helped him most with his driving was giving a commentary.
Should this be something that is required for the DSA test?
So my father (both he and I are senior observers, although he has been for much longer than me!) offered to take him out and see if he could help build his confidence between lessons. I tagged along and true to his father's word, the lad's driving was appalling. It dawned on my father when we were back at home talking that the lad had NO idea about what actually happens to make a car go. For example, he knew the results of raising the clutch, but didn't know how it worked.
So firstly we talked him through what actually happens to the car as you drive and use the various controls. This gave him somewhat of a basic understanding, although didn't really seem to improve his driving. Not really knowing what else to try, my father asked him to tell him what he was doing as he was driving along: sort of a simplified commentary. As we explained the things he had to look out for, and that every action when driving is a reaction to something else he began to increase his commentary of his own accord, and within days his driving was becoming much more confident, and he was judging stops much better.
Anyway, he passed his test today. With 0 minor faults. He really feels that the single thing that helped him most with his driving was giving a commentary.
Should this be something that is required for the DSA test?
It's a good idea, I think we need "Leaner drivers", obesity is becoming a great problem.
Commentary upon diet might help.
However, regarding learner drivers, yes, of course, that would require ADIs to be able to demonstrate it though.
It's about not being on "auto pilot", that there are thought processes involved in every decision.
Commentary upon diet might help.
However, regarding learner drivers, yes, of course, that would require ADIs to be able to demonstrate it though.
It's about not being on "auto pilot", that there are thought processes involved in every decision.
Commentary cna be a great tool but it can also be a bad idea if it's introduced too soon or too much emphasis is placed on it. I think of it as having a pound to spend on your drive. At first, commentary might want 80p of that £1, leaving you with 20p to work the controls with and do everything else. Eventually, it'll only cost you 1p...but thats once you're comfortable with it and more importantly, comfortable with everything else you're doing.
Baryonyx said:
Commentary cna be a great tool but it can also be a bad idea if it's introduced too soon or too much emphasis is placed on it. I think of it as having a pound to spend on your drive. At first, commentary might want 80p of that £1, leaving you with 20p to work the controls with and do everything else. Eventually, it'll only cost you 1p...but thats once you're comfortable with it and more importantly, comfortable with everything else you're doing.
So you won't be able to commentate 'til you can drive confidently/comfortably, and you won't be able to take your test 'til you can drive confidently/comfortably.Shouldn't be a problem with commentating on your test then
Hooli said:
KardioKate said:
Should this be something that is required for the DSA test?
Only if you want safe roads with drivers who can think what to do next. Our system is based on idiots blindly following signs & not thinking at all.Christ the very thought makes me shiver at me desk!
roachcoach said:
It would make me massively uncomfortable I think. I get really rather nervous 'speaking out loud' e.g. presentations, speeches and the like and I know this is not the same, but it is close enough in my head that I am absolutely certain I'd make a right james hunt of it.
Christ the very thought makes me shiver at me desk!
With practice and training though you would become more confident, as you would have done with driving itself. What would be a better test of a driver's hazard perception skills - watching 14 video clips and learning how to click at the right time, or actually telling the Examiner what you see/expect and what you're going to do about it?Christ the very thought makes me shiver at me desk!
Some people have a really hard time passing the HP part of the Theory Test and might prefer to do a commentary? It's not so easy to assess as the computer game though!
Not really, I've had to do many times over the years for work, it doesn't settle down much. It's less obvious to others how shakey I am now but inside I'm still dying in a flame and making idiot mistakes - and that's talking about stuff I've forgotten more about than most will ever know.
Thankfully I've moved away from needing to do that sort of things more lately.
But doing that, as a learner? No thanks. Hell it would make me drive very badly even today. I can do it in my head, have done before out of interest but speaking out loud? No. Calling it a phobia is ludicrous, but it causes a similar involuntary and completely irrational reaction in me.
I only mention it since I'm probably not alone (although I kind of hope so, because it f
king SUCKS)
Thankfully I've moved away from needing to do that sort of things more lately.
But doing that, as a learner? No thanks. Hell it would make me drive very badly even today. I can do it in my head, have done before out of interest but speaking out loud? No. Calling it a phobia is ludicrous, but it causes a similar involuntary and completely irrational reaction in me.
I only mention it since I'm probably not alone (although I kind of hope so, because it f
king SUCKS)Vaux said:
With practice and training though you would become more confident, as you would have done with driving itself. What would be a better test of a driver's hazard perception skills - watching 14 video clips and learning how to click at the right time, or actually telling the Examiner what you see/expect and what you're going to do about it?
Some people have a really hard time passing the HP part of the Theory Test and might prefer to do a commentary? It's not so easy to assess as the computer game though!
I cannot do the HPT as I have a problem with trying to see 3D images on a 2D screenSome people have a really hard time passing the HP part of the Theory Test and might prefer to do a commentary? It's not so easy to assess as the computer game though!
I have a very thick file where my MP has corresponded with the DfT/DSA in trying to get my advanced driving hazard perceptions as an alternative - the DSA are intransigent and will not allow it
So driving and commentating on hazards with a ex/police traffic examiner is not allowed to usurp the DSA HPT
Not logical is it?
roachcoach said:
Hooli said:
KardioKate said:
Should this be something that is required for the DSA test?
Only if you want safe roads with drivers who can think what to do next. Our system is based on idiots blindly following signs & not thinking at all.Christ the very thought makes me shiver at me desk!
Hooli said:
roachcoach said:
Hooli said:
KardioKate said:
Should this be something that is required for the DSA test?
Only if you want safe roads with drivers who can think what to do next. Our system is based on idiots blindly following signs & not thinking at all.Christ the very thought makes me shiver at me desk!
I understand where you are on both topics. And I absolutely know that you can do both well. Having been involved in teaching shy 14 year olds to do a commentary as well as terrified business people to do presentations, I have seen people who would rather have sharp sticks poked in their eyes do both to great effect without wanting to die!
Quite simply if you can have a conversation with a friend, you are set!
Bert
Quite simply if you can have a conversation with a friend, you are set!
Bert
roachcoach said:
Not really, I've had to do many times over the years for work, it doesn't settle down much. It's less obvious to others how shakey I am now but inside I'm still dying in a flame and making idiot mistakes - and that's talking about stuff I've forgotten more about than most will ever know.
Thankfully I've moved away from needing to do that sort of things more lately.
But doing that, as a learner? No thanks. Hell it would make me drive very badly even today. I can do it in my head, have done before out of interest but speaking out loud? No. Calling it a phobia is ludicrous, but it causes a similar involuntary and completely irrational reaction in me.
I only mention it since I'm probably not alone (although I kind of hope so, because it fking SUCKS)
Thankfully I've moved away from needing to do that sort of things more lately.
But doing that, as a learner? No thanks. Hell it would make me drive very badly even today. I can do it in my head, have done before out of interest but speaking out loud? No. Calling it a phobia is ludicrous, but it causes a similar involuntary and completely irrational reaction in me.
I only mention it since I'm probably not alone (although I kind of hope so, because it f
king SUCKS)Had to give commentary while training many, many years ago for a deffensive and evasive driving course. We had to learn a list of standardised phrases, and this helped to save response times and took out a lot of the randomness of commentary you gave. Also, at speed, the body is faster to react and respond than the brain and the gob, so without rehersed commentary, the hazard you are commenting on is behind you.
But thank God we didn't have to do that too much. Very stressfull.
Dan
But thank God we didn't have to do that too much. Very stressfull.
Dan
T0nup said:
Had to give commentary while training many, many years ago for a deffensive and evasive driving course. We had to learn a list of standardised phrases, and this helped to save response times and took out a lot of the randomness of commentary you gave. Also, at speed, the body is faster to react and respond than the brain and the gob, so without rehersed commentary, the hazard you are commenting on is behind you.
Would you be able to reproduce that list - even partially - here for our benefit?I've been trying to practise commentary after learning about it here (thank you PH), and while I certainly feel my observation has improved, my current problem is that I can't seem to easily recall phrases for things, without spending more of Baryonyx's £1 of concentration than I'm comfortable with. Maybe it's just something that comes with practice.
Actually, now I think about it, I've never felt comfortable about talking while driving, full stop.
Perhaps I should start a new thread on that.
'punt
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