Is it just me or is this junction rubbish?

[Accelebrate]

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&a...

During rush hour there's usually a long queue of cars crawling around the corner of this junction. Quite often vehicles will pass the stop line and stop just before the yellow box due to a queue the other side. The lights will change and either another stream of cars will appear from the right of the stranded vehicle, and get stroppy with the stranded vehicle for being there, or the pedestrian crossing will turn green, the driver will assume that because they've passed the stop line for the lights (although they can still see the repeater opposite the junction) that they're good to go and they'll drive through the pedestrian crossing as people are about to cross.

Is it illegal to pass the white line for the junction if the exit isn't clear, even if you don't enter the box junction or block the crossing? If it isn't illegal does the repeater still apply to you, i.e. could you still proceed across the box if the exit became clear but you could see that the repeater had changed to red?

Personally I treat the entire thing as a box junction and don't squeeze into the gap unless I can get out again. But many people don't.

[R0G]

If the vehicle fits into the space between the crossing and the yellow box then that is fine

What is not fine is moving from that position if it is not safe to do so

Once the stop line is crossed then the driver can treat it as a GIVE WAY but that comes with the usual give way caveats

[7db]

R0G said:

Once the stop line is crossed then the driver can treat it as a GIVE WAY but that comes with the usual give way caveats

Can treat what as a give way? He's over the line and in the major road. The other traffic is overtaking him and must yield.

[R0G]

7db said:

Can treat what as a give way? He's over the line and in the major road. The other traffic is overtaking him and must yield.

I did not say he should not!!

[7db]

I'm not sure I understand the thrust of your point, there, Rog.

It's not clear to me why a driver wouldn't just choose to go round the yellow box -- does that really conflict with oncoming traffic?

It's certainly not a standard marking so would need to have been specifically approved by DoT to be valid, and it's an odd use of the box junction.

The practical solution is that you proceed with care, don't block the pedestrian crossing and don't stop in the box, and seek cooperation from traffic on the straight-on road if there is a conflict in heavy traffic blocking the junction between phases.

[Zeeky]

I think 7db is saying is that if the vehicle is completely past the stop line when the lights change to red that driver has priority from the emerging traffic from the right notwithstanding that their light is now on green. It seems to me that the driver would still be expected to give way at the pedestrian crossing. The problem is the driver might not think about it and drive across regardless. In answer to the question the junction could well be improved by extending the yellow box toward the crossing. That way there shouldn't be stranded traffic needing to clear the junction during the pedestrian crossing green phase.

[7db]

7db said:

and it's an odd use of the box junction.

Just had a play with google and realise that we are on the main road curving to the left and it's a minor joining from the right. In this case, it's not that odd: it's often on the major road to prevent blocking of a side junction.

Ironic that 50 yrds down the road they have used the better understood, unenforceable, but eminently more practical "Keep Clear" signage.

[egomeister]

I have never seen it that empty!

[davepoth]

It's all down to the shonky placing of that pedestrian crossing. Presumably an asylum seeking lesbian with a limp was walking 10 metres further than necessary to their job in diversity empowerment at the council, and was therefore gifted a pelican crossing in a daft place.