A troupe of cyclists, WTF?
Discussion
Serious motoring dilemma struck me earlier. Going through my village i cam across a troupe of about 40 cyclists riding in close packed formation, some were 2 abreast.
Anyway, the road then forks into a triangle http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=yetminster&um=...
The cyclists all went left and i went right,
I then didnt manage to "beat" the cyclists to the junction so they were still ahead, i was then turning right shortly after so i turning in to the road and continued a kinda overtake/ 2 lane road styley thing and took my turning.
Anyway, the question being, should i have waited for all of them to cross the junction and continued as i would have a steady stream of cars?
Should i have passed them as i did?
Anyway, this has bothered me ever since it happened (hence the post) and id love to give it another try, as im sure my plan of action wasnt the best, but tbh, where i live this is something that you rarely come across and i was a bit baffled as to how best to handle it.
Ta
Anyway, the road then forks into a triangle http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=yetminster&um=...
The cyclists all went left and i went right,
I then didnt manage to "beat" the cyclists to the junction so they were still ahead, i was then turning right shortly after so i turning in to the road and continued a kinda overtake/ 2 lane road styley thing and took my turning.
Anyway, the question being, should i have waited for all of them to cross the junction and continued as i would have a steady stream of cars?
Should i have passed them as i did?
Anyway, this has bothered me ever since it happened (hence the post) and id love to give it another try, as im sure my plan of action wasnt the best, but tbh, where i live this is something that you rarely come across and i was a bit baffled as to how best to handle it.
Ta
You turned onto the right side of the road, committing yourself to continuing on the offside to the junction?
I suppose the view could be good enough to do that. To create a scenario to get the juices flowing: what would you have done had a fire appliance - with blue lights on - turned out of your side road and gone towards you?
I think waiting for the troupe to finish and potting along behind them was the answer -- particularly with the knowledge that you were turning off their likely course so soon and so would not be delayed much.
That or another fiver to get the car re-cleaned.
I suppose the view could be good enough to do that. To create a scenario to get the juices flowing: what would you have done had a fire appliance - with blue lights on - turned out of your side road and gone towards you?
I think waiting for the troupe to finish and potting along behind them was the answer -- particularly with the knowledge that you were turning off their likely course so soon and so would not be delayed much.
That or another fiver to get the car re-cleaned.
I would suggest you are the dick. Cyclists have every right to be on the road and it is your responsibility to drive carefully and considerately with due care and attention. I love to drive fast but also love to cycle. So does Jenson Button and Mark Webber. I bet they are better drivers than you and they certainly are not dicks. You however are with your attitude.
Assuming the cyclists were the sort with a penchant for lycra I imagine that they'd probably be traveling in excess of 20mph. You performed a manoeuvre which you deemed potentially dodgy enough to warrant drawing a map and asking for opinion at a later date. Hardly seems worth it when you could have had a bit more patience and travelled a shorter distance at negligibly lower speed. The benefit in terms of time saved on your journey must have been seconds...
You left yourself open to someone coming out of your road (the one you turned right into) looking to the right (oncoming traffic) and not to the left. This is something we have all seen happen and we were ALL taught not to do it when learning to drive and have no doubt fallen foul of others only looking to the right and not also to the left when turning left out of a T-junction. In this situation you would have had to choose between a head on and taking avoiding action into the cyclists. People who do this are effectively not looking at the bit of road they are driving to as much as the traffic that could affect them and serious accidents happen this way.
I had this happen to me once. Committed to an overtake in an nsl with a t-junction ahead and to the right. Sure enough a 4x4 appears at the t-junction, stops, only looks right and not left and pulls out into my path. In my case there was just enough room for me but I havn't done it again, when overtaking I now look for hazards from the right in the form of t junctions - it's a lesson you learn once.
You left yourself open to this, don't do it again.
Next time hang back and hurl abuse. I find "if you spent your free time working you could afford a car" type comments garner a suitable reaction. (I'm joking btw)
ETA - Turns out I didn't see DocSteve's comment before posting - doh
I had this happen to me once. Committed to an overtake in an nsl with a t-junction ahead and to the right. Sure enough a 4x4 appears at the t-junction, stops, only looks right and not left and pulls out into my path. In my case there was just enough room for me but I havn't done it again, when overtaking I now look for hazards from the right in the form of t junctions - it's a lesson you learn once.
You left yourself open to this, don't do it again.
Next time hang back and hurl abuse. I find "if you spent your free time working you could afford a car" type comments garner a suitable reaction. (I'm joking btw)
ETA - Turns out I didn't see DocSteve's comment before posting - doh
jains15 said:
You left yourself open to someone coming out of your road (the one you turned right into) looking to the right (oncoming traffic) and not to the left. This is something we have all seen happen and we were ALL taught not to do it when learning to drive and have no doubt fallen foul of others only looking to the right and not also to the left when turning left out of a T-junction. In this situation you would have had to choose between a head on and taking avoiding action into the cyclists. People who do this are effectively not looking at the bit of road they are driving to as much as the traffic that could affect them and serious accidents happen this way.
I had this happen to me once. Committed to an overtake in an nsl with a t-junction ahead and to the right. Sure enough a 4x4 appears at the t-junction, stops, only looks right and not left and pulls out into my path. In my case there was just enough room for me but I havn't done it again, when overtaking I now look for hazards from the right in the form of t junctions - it's a lesson you learn once.
You left yourself open to this, don't do it again.
Next time hang back and hurl abuse. I find "if you spent your free time working you could afford a car" type comments garner a suitable reaction. (I'm joking btw)
Pfft, if you hadn't wasted your money on a 156 you could afford a decent cycle I had this happen to me once. Committed to an overtake in an nsl with a t-junction ahead and to the right. Sure enough a 4x4 appears at the t-junction, stops, only looks right and not left and pulls out into my path. In my case there was just enough room for me but I havn't done it again, when overtaking I now look for hazards from the right in the form of t junctions - it's a lesson you learn once.
You left yourself open to this, don't do it again.
Next time hang back and hurl abuse. I find "if you spent your free time working you could afford a car" type comments garner a suitable reaction. (I'm joking btw)
Benbay001 said:
some were 2 abreast.
Highway code states to give cyclists as much room as a car when overtaking, so really it doesn't matter if they're 2 abreast.In fact busy road, small overtaking gap... What's easier to overtake without incident? 10 cyclists riding 2 abreast or 10 cyclists riding single file?
I for one cannot believe that you are so pathetic that you could not simply wait to follow behind and make the turn safely after the cyclists had cleared your right turn. It's about the distance of four semi detached houses FFS. You could SEE the junction, yet you either felt that your time (all 15 seconds of it) was too precious to 'waste' behind a large group of 'inferior road users', or you are just the 'generally impatient' type who cannot bear to be 'held up' behind ANY other road user. Do you genuinely believe that your overtake actually achieved ANYTHING in terms of occupying road space to your better advantage. I could SORT OF understand it if you overtook the group as they approached a section of road where you knew it would be more difficult to pass due to traffic or physical road conditions, but you KNEW that you would be turning right almost immediately following the previous turn. Did you really have time to apply 'Mirror, Signal, Position-Speed-Look' before your combined overtake/right turn, or were you simply so surprised/annoyed that 'those damned cyclists' had the audacity to 'beat' you to the turn, that you were 'forced' to carry out your manoeuvre to 'teach them a lesson'?
YES! I am a cyclist (4,000 miles a year plus), and YES! I am a driver (25,000 miles a year plus). And NO! I would not have passed the cyclists, no matter how large or small their number, unless I was sure that it was both SAFE, and NECESSARY, in order to make progress.
To all the non-cycling bike haters on here, a question. Is it really all that difficult to give a cyclist the same respect/space that you would give to any other vehicle? If it isn't too much trouble, could you please move all the way across to the opposite lane when overtaking. If your answer is that you can't because of oncoming (or potentially oncoming) traffic, or if you would not overtake another car in the same situation, then your overtake will be neither safe, nor necessary, and you could just wait, it's usually for far less time/distance than you perceive it to be. One day it may be you, or your partner/child/relative or close friend on that bike, and some other driver may not overtake safely resulting in loss and grief to you or your family. Most of us on two wheels are well aware of our vulnerability on the roads, and very few will actively try to hold a driver up (granted, there will be twunts in all road-using groups), so please be patient, give us a bit more space than you think we need, and we can all help to make the roads a more pleasant place to be.
YES! I am a cyclist (4,000 miles a year plus), and YES! I am a driver (25,000 miles a year plus). And NO! I would not have passed the cyclists, no matter how large or small their number, unless I was sure that it was both SAFE, and NECESSARY, in order to make progress.
To all the non-cycling bike haters on here, a question. Is it really all that difficult to give a cyclist the same respect/space that you would give to any other vehicle? If it isn't too much trouble, could you please move all the way across to the opposite lane when overtaking. If your answer is that you can't because of oncoming (or potentially oncoming) traffic, or if you would not overtake another car in the same situation, then your overtake will be neither safe, nor necessary, and you could just wait, it's usually for far less time/distance than you perceive it to be. One day it may be you, or your partner/child/relative or close friend on that bike, and some other driver may not overtake safely resulting in loss and grief to you or your family. Most of us on two wheels are well aware of our vulnerability on the roads, and very few will actively try to hold a driver up (granted, there will be twunts in all road-using groups), so please be patient, give us a bit more space than you think we need, and we can all help to make the roads a more pleasant place to be.
PainTrain said:
Do I really have to move over 6-7 metres for a cyclist that is taking up 0.5 metres?
Since the 'Primary Safe Position' for cycling is the 'centre of the left hand lane', and the 'Secondary Safe Position' is 'NOT LESS THAN 0.5 metres from the kerb', and the highway code suggests that drivers should expect cyclists to manoeuvre around hazards in the road (of which there are many), then yes, I think you should give me, and other cyclists as much space as you would a car, but no, you don't HAVE TO. There is no specific law, nor to my knowledge any reliable method for plod to measure separation distance between vehicles, nor would I campaign for any such legislation. As already stated, it is a request from one road user to another, and I've already laboured on the point that if it's safe to move out to overtake, then it follows that it will be safe to place all four of your wheels into the right hand lane. An exception would obviously be on narrower rural roads that do not have lane separation lines, in which case you should base your decision to wait or overtake on the road conditions and the situation as you read it at the time. I've not posted on this thread to 'assert my rights' or to be unreasonable in any way, just to ask other road users to think about how they might feel if they, or their loved ones were in a similar situation.From the Department for Trnsport 'Drive Safe, Cycle Safe' site:
"What cyclists would like motorists to know:
Cyclists are more vulnerable than motorists - drivers have the major responsibility to take care. Rain, wind and poor visibility make conditions worse for cyclists.
Cyclists can feel threatened by inconsiderate driving. They have a right to space on the road and need extra room at junctions and roundabouts where cars change speed, position and direction.
Cyclists ride away from the kerb, not to annoy motorists but to:
avoid drains, potholes and debris
be seen as they come to junctions with side roads
discourage drivers from squeezing past when it's too narrow
Cyclists turning right are exposed - and need extra consideration from motorists, especially on multi-lane roads with fast-moving traffic.
Cyclists can be forced into faster traffic - by vehicles parked in cycle lanes, at junctions or on double yellow lines.
Cyclists are dazzled by full-beam headlights, like everyone else.
Cyclists can be fast movers - 20mph or more."
From Cycling Safely: Directgov:
"How to cycle safely on the road
Stay alert!
Don't listen to music or use a mobile phone while cycling – distractions cause accidents
When you're cycling on busy roads you need to show drivers what you plan to do. Motorists usually travel faster than cyclists and may have less time react to hazards.
Try to anticipate what a driver will do and:
- ride positively and decisively
- look and signal before you start, stop or turn
- ride well clear of the kerb - 1 metre away or in the centre of the left lane
- make eye contact with drivers to let them know you have seen them
- acknowledge any courtesy from drivers
- ride a car-door width away from parked cars
Positional advice from BikeRadar:
"The primary riding position is in the centre of the lane (the most left-hand lane on multi-lane roads). The secondary riding position is about a metre to the left of moving traffic, but not closer than 0.5 metres to the edge of the road (closer would mean no room for manoeuvre in emergencies and also riding over glass and other kinds of road debris). While the terms 'primary' and 'secondary' aren't defined precisely in road traffic law or in The Highway Code, they are widely used in all recognised manuals - most notably the book Cyclecraft, endorsed by The Department For Transport"
There is plenty of advice for cyclists too, all available with a little effort through Google. Unfortunately for all of us, there are plenty of cyclists who are ignorant of this advice, but there is no reason for drivers to treat us all like twunts just because they've met one or two inconsiderate cyclists when driving. Remember that idiot cyclists embarrass and irritate other cyclists just as much as they annoy drivers, sometimes more-so, as they give drivers more reason to hate on bikes. I have come across far more instances of inconsiderate, and plain bad, driving in my time, but life would get way too stressful if I started to hate ALL of a particular user group based on the actions of a minority of said group.
PainTrain said:
Do I really have to move over 6-7 metres for a cyclist that is taking up 0.5 metres?
If you have no regard for the cyclists think about yourself.If he hits a pot hole and falls into the road he will be 2 metres from the kerb and you would run over him and kill him and your life would be changed forever.What always amazes me is motorists who will happily sit behind a horse for as long as necesary but a cyclist the red mist comes down.
Having lost a few friends and others who are permanently disabled after being hit by a car its not a fun thing to be involved in nor is it in anyway humourous.
Sorry for the rant.
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