Is overtaking a lost art?
Discussion
The British love to queue. Driving nowadays is just one long queue. I think people view overtaking the same as they would queue jumping. So these orderly queues form at speed with everyone nose to tail. None of these people are thinking about passing. They just want to maintain position in their queue. If anyone tries to jump the queue the more aggressive participants will want to dole out some form of discipline or retribution. They do not understand their actions are dangerous or aggressive or selfish because they believe they are queuing and they know how to queue.
The person at the front of the queue is very special. They get to decide the safe speed for the whole queue. They look in their mirror and feel good when they see this long snake of people following them in an orderly fashion. They know they are keeping everyone safe. They know the area and the road and have been driving for many years along this section and never ever had an accident. They are helping everyone. We should thank them. We are in effect enforcing this belief when we follow along.
It would be interesting to choose some roads and just try driving along them at a slow speed to see what people do. I think most would just follow along way to close.
Cars are getting bigger and engines are getting smaller - if you ignore electric. You can get a big Range Rover Sport now, the massive one, with a 2 litre diesel 4 pot. No way that will have the oomph to overtake anything over say 45 mph without a mile of clear sight. And even then the owner driver won't even see the overtaking opportunity because he or she or they will be only concerned with queuing in an orderly fashion whilst watching their mpg meter giving them real time updates on the economy being achieved.
If you whoosh past you will probably surprise them at first as they wouldn't be expecting anyone to do anything such as overtaking.
A final thought. Will self driving cars be programmed to overtake. I can't see this working. If you catch someone cruising at a max of 50mph on straights but slower on bends whilst driving along a 60mph road then a human driver would maybe overtake safely at 70 mph and then slow to 60 and continue on their way. But an automated vehicle couldn't do that. It would not be allowed to burst over the limit for a short period of time.
The person at the front of the queue is very special. They get to decide the safe speed for the whole queue. They look in their mirror and feel good when they see this long snake of people following them in an orderly fashion. They know they are keeping everyone safe. They know the area and the road and have been driving for many years along this section and never ever had an accident. They are helping everyone. We should thank them. We are in effect enforcing this belief when we follow along.
It would be interesting to choose some roads and just try driving along them at a slow speed to see what people do. I think most would just follow along way to close.
Cars are getting bigger and engines are getting smaller - if you ignore electric. You can get a big Range Rover Sport now, the massive one, with a 2 litre diesel 4 pot. No way that will have the oomph to overtake anything over say 45 mph without a mile of clear sight. And even then the owner driver won't even see the overtaking opportunity because he or she or they will be only concerned with queuing in an orderly fashion whilst watching their mpg meter giving them real time updates on the economy being achieved.
If you whoosh past you will probably surprise them at first as they wouldn't be expecting anyone to do anything such as overtaking.
ATM said:
I recently bought a Van. I was driving it recently and someone over took me. I was actually quite pleased. It definitely gave me a sense that its not just me overtaking. Other people are clearly doing it too.
I've now noticed that driving a Van does make other people behave differently towards You. For a start other Van and Lorry drivers are much nicer towards You. Its definitely like Us and Them and Us includes all larger Vans and Lorrys. But the surprise for me is how the average motorists, according to the above driving a Kia Spotage, seem anxious about pulling out of junctions ahead of Me. So as I'm coming down the road if they are intending to pull out of a side road in front of me they will be more likely to do this with less room available than if I was driving a car. I can't decide why. It could be I'm over sensitive about safe distances driving a massive heavy Van with far less grip than a car - and mine isn't even that big. Or it could be that people just wanna get out in front because they want some form of revenge on aggressive Van drivers or they feel like Vans should be slower than their smaller and more nimble Kia Sportage and therefore they should get on their way quickly before getting stuck behind this limbering beast of a Van. Because as we all know they will have no intention of ever performing an overtake once behind it.A final thought. Will self driving cars be programmed to overtake. I can't see this working. If you catch someone cruising at a max of 50mph on straights but slower on bends whilst driving along a 60mph road then a human driver would maybe overtake safely at 70 mph and then slow to 60 and continue on their way. But an automated vehicle couldn't do that. It would not be allowed to burst over the limit for a short period of time.
ATM said:
The British love to queue. Driving nowadays is just one long queue. I think people view overtaking the same as they would queue jumping. So these orderly queues form at speed with everyone nose to tail. None of these people are thinking about passing. They just want to maintain position in their queue. If anyone tries to jump the queue the more aggressive participants will want to dole out some form of discipline or retribution. They do not understand their actions are dangerous or aggressive or selfish because they believe they are queuing and they know how to queue.
The person at the front of the queue is very special. They get to decide the safe speed for the whole queue. They look in their mirror and feel good when they see this long snake of people following them in an orderly fashion. They know they are keeping everyone safe. They know the area and the road and have been driving for many years along this section and never ever had an accident. They are helping everyone. We should thank them. We are in effect enforcing this belief when we follow along.
You've captured the sorry status quo in a nutshell The person at the front of the queue is very special. They get to decide the safe speed for the whole queue. They look in their mirror and feel good when they see this long snake of people following them in an orderly fashion. They know they are keeping everyone safe. They know the area and the road and have been driving for many years along this section and never ever had an accident. They are helping everyone. We should thank them. We are in effect enforcing this belief when we follow along.
ATM said:
A final thought. Will self driving cars be programmed to overtake. I can't see this working. If you catch someone cruising at a max of 50mph on straights but slower on bends whilst driving along a 60mph road then a human driver would maybe overtake safely at 70 mph and then slow to 60 and continue on their way. But an automated vehicle couldn't do that. It would not be allowed to burst over the limit for a short period of time.
Automated vehicles will have to negotiate slow obstacles such as horses, cyclists and some farm tractors. Otherwise we will all grind to a halt. But overtaking anything faster will be unrealistic.I suspect the authorities will address this problem in the opposite direction. With focus on vulnerable road users, A-roads will become blanket 50mph with 40mph imposed on B-roads and C-roads. Problem solved - no need to overtake when all traffic is reduced to a crawl.
bigothunter said:
Automated vehicles will have to negotiate slow obstacles such as horses, cyclists and some farm tractors. Otherwise we will all grind to a halt. But overtaking anything faster will be unrealistic.
I suspect the authorities will address this problem in the opposite direction. With focus on vulnerable road users, A-roads will become blanket 50mph with 40mph imposed on B-roads and C-roads. Problem solved - no need to overtake when all traffic is reduced to a crawl.
Two slips road today queuing onto duel carriageway. I didn't fancy dying so used, legally, second slip road lane which was empty. I suspect the authorities will address this problem in the opposite direction. With focus on vulnerable road users, A-roads will become blanket 50mph with 40mph imposed on B-roads and C-roads. Problem solved - no need to overtake when all traffic is reduced to a crawl.
Golfgtimk28v said:
bigothunter said:
Automated vehicles will have to negotiate slow obstacles such as horses, cyclists and some farm tractors. Otherwise we will all grind to a halt. But overtaking anything faster will be unrealistic.
I suspect the authorities will address this problem in the opposite direction. With focus on vulnerable road users, A-roads will become blanket 50mph with 40mph imposed on B-roads and C-roads. Problem solved - no need to overtake when all traffic is reduced to a crawl.
Two slips road today queuing onto duel carriageway. I didn't fancy dying so used, legally, second slip road lane which was empty. I suspect the authorities will address this problem in the opposite direction. With focus on vulnerable road users, A-roads will become blanket 50mph with 40mph imposed on B-roads and C-roads. Problem solved - no need to overtake when all traffic is reduced to a crawl.
Just back in Straya from four weeks in UK.
Lots more overtaking 'opportunities' than here in Oz. No problem with any other drivers. Pleased to say that the driving in the UK continues to be enjoyable and the driving standard much higher than here although motor cyclists don't seem as good as they were.
Most 20 mph zones seem appropriate.
Lots more overtaking 'opportunities' than here in Oz. No problem with any other drivers. Pleased to say that the driving in the UK continues to be enjoyable and the driving standard much higher than here although motor cyclists don't seem as good as they were.
Most 20 mph zones seem appropriate.
ATM said:
The British love to queue. Driving nowadays is just one long queue. I think people view overtaking the same as they would queue jumping.
Great insight tks. This is v probably the mentality of most drivers now. Would certainly explain the irate responses of many to being overtaken, or seeing others overtake. dontlookdown said:
ATM said:
The British love to queue. Driving nowadays is just one long queue. I think people view overtaking the same as they would queue jumping.
Great insight tks. This is v probably the mentality of most drivers now. Would certainly explain the irate responses of many to being overtaken, or seeing others overtake. DodgyGeezer said:
My daughter insists her driving instructor taught her that overtaking on single carriageway roads was dangerous and wouldn't be told otherwise (mind-you a, then, teen who never listened... 
). That said given the driving 'standards' I wouldn't be surprised 
The same instructors insist that crossing their hands is dangerous, even though EVERYONE does it as soon as they pass their test! ). That said given the driving 'standards' I wouldn't be surprised Len Woodman said:
Just back in Straya from four weeks in UK.
Lots more overtaking 'opportunities' than here in Oz. No problem with any other drivers. Pleased to say that the driving in the UK continues to be enjoyable and the driving standard much higher than here although motor cyclists don't seem as good as they were.
Most 20 mph zones seem appropriate.
A significant proportion of the training I do is 'UK familiarisation' and almost all drivers I've met comment along similar lines. Won't stop the usual whiners moaning about declining driving standards and blaming it all on driving instructors though. Lots more overtaking 'opportunities' than here in Oz. No problem with any other drivers. Pleased to say that the driving in the UK continues to be enjoyable and the driving standard much higher than here although motor cyclists don't seem as good as they were.
Most 20 mph zones seem appropriate.
Managed to overtake a car in my lorry earlier.
NSL single carriageway, car doing 40 ish out of a bend, I know the road very well, long straight with fantastic visibility. No issues.
Even managed to pull away from the car which surprised me, they didn't speed up to block me.
I showed em!
NSL single carriageway, car doing 40 ish out of a bend, I know the road very well, long straight with fantastic visibility. No issues.
Even managed to pull away from the car which surprised me, they didn't speed up to block me.
I showed em!
I would not say people are irate when you overtake. I would preclude this by saying it is more than possible that before overtaking a person following might have been fairly close for some time, which bothers some people.
I have to be honest that if someone does that to me I let them past, they never usually gain much and it is usually done in daft places where there is a stop or traffic light son anyway or expected delays due to regular traffic.
But I have certainly experienced on numerous occasions people accelerating and trying to prevent you from passing, or furiously flashing lights etc.
I have to be honest that if someone does that to me I let them past, they never usually gain much and it is usually done in daft places where there is a stop or traffic light son anyway or expected delays due to regular traffic.
But I have certainly experienced on numerous occasions people accelerating and trying to prevent you from passing, or furiously flashing lights etc.
Len Woodman said:
Just back in Straya from four weeks in UK.
Most 20 mph zones seem appropriate.
Delayed response. Most 20 mph zones seem appropriate.
I suspect that you did not drive in London at night. Many major routes have 20 limits which are certainly not justified by safety considerations. The main potential justification is discouraging the use of motor vehicles. I find the low speed extremely frustrating and I find the constant switch backwards and forwards between 20 and 30 with easy to miss signs very stressful.
waremark said:
I suspect that you did not drive in London at night. Many major routes have 20 limits which are certainly not justified by safety considerations. The main potential justification is discouraging the use of motor vehicles. I find the low speed extremely frustrating and I find the constant switch backwards and forwards between 20 and 30 with easy to miss signs very stressful.
Easily solved - just drive in London without exceeding 20mph 
Very true about when cycling, esp on country lanes - 2 types of driver overtaker:
1. Person who think cyclists are scum who should be culled and who think it's OK to pass with a 2cm gap, and you have to jump off into a hedge to escape; and
2. People who think cyclists are fragile and liable to topple over at any moment and who therefore consider that a 2 metres gap isn't sufficient, and so they crawl along behind you for miles. This is v cringey if you're labouring on a road with steep hills, and feeling quite un-heroic as is, without some nervous numpty kerb crawling up your arse, mile after mile. I usually jump off, pull the cycle into the hedge, bow and wave them past. They dawdle past in 1st or 2nd gear, smiling nervously.
The common factor in both is incompetence and an inability to judge speed and distance.
1. Person who think cyclists are scum who should be culled and who think it's OK to pass with a 2cm gap, and you have to jump off into a hedge to escape; and
2. People who think cyclists are fragile and liable to topple over at any moment and who therefore consider that a 2 metres gap isn't sufficient, and so they crawl along behind you for miles. This is v cringey if you're labouring on a road with steep hills, and feeling quite un-heroic as is, without some nervous numpty kerb crawling up your arse, mile after mile. I usually jump off, pull the cycle into the hedge, bow and wave them past. They dawdle past in 1st or 2nd gear, smiling nervously.
The common factor in both is incompetence and an inability to judge speed and distance.
MF35 said:
Very true about when cycling, esp on country lanes - 2 types of driver overtaker:
1. Person who think cyclists are scum who should be culled and who think it's OK to pass with a 2cm gap, and you have to jump off into a hedge to escape; and
2. People who think cyclists are fragile and liable to topple over at any moment and who therefore consider that a 2 metres gap isn't sufficient, and so they crawl along behind you for miles. This is v cringey if you're labouring on a road with steep hills, and feeling quite un-heroic as is, without some nervous numpty kerb crawling up your arse, mile after mile. I usually jump off, pull the cycle into the hedge, bow and wave them past. They dawdle past in 1st or 2nd gear, smiling nervously.
The common factor in both is incompetence and an inability to judge speed and distance.
With #1 being unacceptable, and #2 being acceptable.1. Person who think cyclists are scum who should be culled and who think it's OK to pass with a 2cm gap, and you have to jump off into a hedge to escape; and
2. People who think cyclists are fragile and liable to topple over at any moment and who therefore consider that a 2 metres gap isn't sufficient, and so they crawl along behind you for miles. This is v cringey if you're labouring on a road with steep hills, and feeling quite un-heroic as is, without some nervous numpty kerb crawling up your arse, mile after mile. I usually jump off, pull the cycle into the hedge, bow and wave them past. They dawdle past in 1st or 2nd gear, smiling nervously.
The common factor in both is incompetence and an inability to judge speed and distance.
MF35 said:
Very true about when cycling, esp on country lanes - 2 types of driver overtaker:
1. Person who think cyclists are scum who should be culled and who think it's OK to pass with a 2cm gap, and you have to jump off into a hedge to escape; and
2. People who think cyclists are fragile and liable to topple over at any moment and who therefore consider that a 2 metres gap isn't sufficient, and so they crawl along behind you for miles. This is v cringey if you're labouring on a road with steep hills, and feeling quite un-heroic as is, without some nervous numpty kerb crawling up your arse, mile after mile. I usually jump off, pull the cycle into the hedge, bow and wave them past. They dawdle past in 1st or 2nd gear, smiling nervously.
The common factor in both is incompetence and an inability to judge speed and distance.
There are many more types to worry about..1. Person who think cyclists are scum who should be culled and who think it's OK to pass with a 2cm gap, and you have to jump off into a hedge to escape; and
2. People who think cyclists are fragile and liable to topple over at any moment and who therefore consider that a 2 metres gap isn't sufficient, and so they crawl along behind you for miles. This is v cringey if you're labouring on a road with steep hills, and feeling quite un-heroic as is, without some nervous numpty kerb crawling up your arse, mile after mile. I usually jump off, pull the cycle into the hedge, bow and wave them past. They dawdle past in 1st or 2nd gear, smiling nervously.
The common factor in both is incompetence and an inability to judge speed and distance.
The person who thinks the cyclist ceases to exist as soon as they are past their eyeliner and pulls in too soon.
The person who can't make a decision, so squanders the safe opportunity to overtake and waits until it is unsafe, then does it anyway.
The second,third... overtaking car, who just follows the first car.
The person who overtakes and then turns off the road.
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