Aftermarket component speakers - use of crossover

[heisthegaffer]

Hi all

I've installed a fair amount of kit over the years but not on modern car.

I'm picking up an S5 soon with the base audio system so unless there's a miracle, I've low expectations.

I'm planning on installing some focal 16.5cm components but do I use the (presumably) built in crossover? I want to do a very basic job... I can't face taking the dash apart etc.

I may end up getting a pro to fit an amp at some point.

[walamai]

I would suggest using the crossover that comes with the speakers - it will be matched to the frequency response of the mids/tweeters which you are installing.

You can use the existing door wiring though - just use one pair of the factory wires to get from the car out through the grommet into the door. Then install the crossover in the door.

ETA: Although it depends where the factory crossover sits. If the factory tweeters are in the dash, then presumably the mids in the doors would only be getting a LPF filtered signal. Either way, I'd still be looking to swap out the factory crossover for the aftermarket one you are installing.

Edited by walamai on Friday 13th September 15:32

[Decky_Q]

I've replaced a fair few speakers in cars.

What is a cross over?

Have I been doing it wrong ordering OE sized and rated speakers and just doing straight swaps?
I've never done any fibre optic units, only copper wire, possibly crimping different sized spade connectors, but pretty much straight forward.

[Panamax]

Decky_Q said:

Have I been doing it wrong ordering OE sized and rated speakers and just doing straight swaps?

Sounds fine to me. No point getting clever unless you're replacing the whole system from top to bottom.

[dave123456]

Decky_Q said:

I've replaced a fair few speakers in cars.

What is a cross over?

Have I been doing it wrong ordering OE sized and rated speakers and just doing straight swaps?
I've never done any fibre optic units, only copper wire, possibly crimping different sized spade connectors, but pretty much straight forward.

In very basic terms a filter that ensures each speaker gets the frequencies it’s designed to handle.

So a sub has a low (frequency) pass filter and a tweeter a high pass filter.

Years since I’ve fannied around with it. From recollection amps often had basic crossover capabilities but higher end stuff needed a separate crossover.

[walamai]

The OP mentions installing 'component' speakers - which typically means the speakers have physically separate mid range cone and tweeter.



The crossover is a box of fairly basic electronics which separates a full range single into higher frequencies for the tweeter and lower frequencies for the mid range speaker.

A factory stereo may have an 'active' crossover, where the signals are separated digitally by the audio system/head unit. Or it may have 'passive' crossovers similar to the above picture.

[heisthegaffer]

walamai said:

I would suggest using the crossover that comes with the speakers - it will be matched to the frequency response of the mids/tweeters which you are installing.

You can use the existing door wiring though - just use one pair of the factory wires to get from the car out through the grommet into the door. Then install the crossover in the door.

ETA: Although it depends where the factory crossover sits. If the factory tweeters are in the dash, then presumably the mids in the doors would only be getting a LPF filtered signal. Either way, I'd still be looking to swap out the factory crossover for the aftermarket one you are installing.

Edited by walamai on Friday 13th September 15:32

The mid/sub are in the doors and tweeters in the dash. Whether I can get to the wires for each in order to replace the factory crossover is another matter.

Thanks all

[Panamax]

heisthegaffer said:

The mid/sub are in the doors and tweeters in the dash. Whether I can get to the wires for each in order to replace the factory crossover is another matter.

Well, yes. But if you replace the mid/subs and the tweeters why do you need to make any changes to the crossover?

[heisthegaffer]

Panamax said:

heisthegaffer said:

The mid/sub are in the doors and tweeters in the dash. Whether I can get to the wires for each in order to replace the factory crossover is another matter.

Well, yes. But if you replace the mid/subs and the tweeters why do you need to make any changes to the crossover?

Well I hopefully won't need to but is there a chance the crossover specs would be different or negligible?

[Panamax]

Sure, a set of speakers should ideally be designed as a system with a bespoke crossover and taking account of the physical environment of the installation. But in a noisy a car I doubt the nuances are worth worrying about. Just fitting better speakers than the manufacturer's cheap-n-cheerful stuff can make a big difference.

[defblade]

heisthegaffer said:

The mid/sub are in the doors and tweeters in the dash. Whether I can get to the wires for each in order to replace the factory crossover is another matter.

Thanks all

If it is a basic system, when you pull the tweeters, they may well have a capacitor attached to the back... in which case that'll be the entire OE crossover right there

[heisthegaffer]

Thanks all.

Was thinking an 80 quid set of Focal could be a cheap and easy upgrade.

[Panamax]

defblade said:

If it is a basic system, when you pull the tweeters, they may well have a capacitor attached to the back... in which case that'll be the entire OE crossover right there

Yup, a very rudimentary high pass filter.

Just swapping the speakers for £80 sounds a good move to me and see what happens. The in-car environment is a tough place for audio so there's not a lot of point getting carried away.

[heisthegaffer]

Panamax said:

defblade said:

If it is a basic system, when you pull the tweeters, they may well have a capacitor attached to the back... in which case that'll be the entire OE crossover right there

Yup, a very rudimentary high pass filter.

Just swapping the speakers for £80 sounds a good move to me and see what happens. The in-car environment is a tough place for audio so there's not a lot of point getting carried away.

Thanks all.

[SlimJim16v]

heisthegaffer said:

Well I hopefully won't need to but is there a chance the crossover specs would be different or negligible?

The wrong crossover frequency for the tweeters could damage them.

[heisthegaffer]

I've seen people recommend using the aftermarket crossover for the tweeter connected to the OEM cable, hiding it somewhere in the dash.

[MattsCar]

No point upgrading the speakers if you are not going to amp it.

Standard speaker will be a light weight paper cone with high efficiency, designed to work with the low power the factory amplifier provides.

Aftermarket speaker will most likely be a heavier "poly" cone, with less sensitivity and will not go as loud on the same amount of power. You'll notice this most in the bass department.

If you do go ahead, which you shouldn't, then ensure that the ohmage of the speakers are identical to the factory speakers. If replacing factory 2 ohm units, with 4 ohm units (which most factory speakers are) then you will essentially be halving the amount of power of the amplifier.

Proper amplified setup is the obvious answer, but these days, it can be a little complex to do, requiring a processor.

Edited by MattsCar on Sunday 15th September 23:06

[heisthegaffer]

I've seen that Audison do specific 2ohm components that rather cleverly come with 2 crossovers for ease of fit (assuming they can be placed somewhere easily)

[KingGary]

As above, I’d look to fit a decent compact amp with the speakers. I bought some Focal 3 way components (bass, mid, tweeter) for my old Range Rover and whilst I was at it, fitted one of these:

https://caraudiocentre.co.uk/products/m-focal-impu...

It’s really small so can put almost anywhere. It can also accept high or low input (high means standard speaker outputs from your head unit), and it can be bridged to 2 channel only, which I did as I only replaced the front speakers. It made a huge difference and gives me 2 x 120w which is plenty.

[darreni]

KingGary said:

As above, I’d look to fit a decent compact amp with the speakers. I bought some Focal 3 way components (bass, mid, tweeter) for my old Range Rover and whilst I was at it, fitted one of these:

https://caraudiocentre.co.uk/products/m-focal-impu...

It’s really small so can put almost anywhere. It can also accept high or low input (high means standard speaker outputs from your head unit), and it can be bridged to 2 channel only, which I did as I only replaced the front speakers. It made a huge difference and gives me 2 x 120w which is plenty.

I have the same amp fitted to my CSL, easy plug & play to the standard factory CD head unit. I also fitted Morel hybrid speakers front & rear and together its made a huge difference to the quality.