Car theft, a new method?

[MXRod]

A chap I bump into whilst out walking our dog . had his 72 plate Lexus saloon stolen off of his drive , but not the usual (to me ) method .
CCTV shows the thieves working in a front wheel arch for a few moments ,using a lap top type device the car sprung to life , and was gone ,all this took place in minutes.
I am assuming they had found a way to access the CANBUS ,and start the car without the need for the fob .

[Time4another]

Known vulnarability with that model. Unreal manufacturers aren't keen to fix these issues.

[Richard-390a0]

It's been mentioned on here before & there are threads all over the net about it. Another one to add to the 'Do I buy one & constantly worry about theft list'....

[blue_haddock]

Same method used on the Toyota Rav4 too.

[MXRod]

As I say ,new to me , any other newer cars have this vulnerability,my brother has just taken delivery of a new Defender and apparently JLR have addressed this

[ARHarh]

As far as I knew Lexus and Toyota will fit some kind of protective cover if you ask. Still mad that they would design something like this though.

Next they will be getting the guy from Ford who designed the Cortina security in the 70's to help them out

[zedx19]

Alfa have a similar problem I believe, except with that its plugging into the radar unit in the front bumper.

[Tomo1971]

How do the wrong 'uns work out these vulnerabilities?

Is someone leaking info from the dealers / manufacturers etc?

[Hugo Stiglitz]

And yet modern car thefts are blamed in the police. Its too late after its been stolen. They don't leave dna or uncover their faces for any cctv.

[SlimJim16v]

MXRod said:

As I say ,new to me , any other newer cars have this vulnerability,my brother has just taken delivery of a new Defender and apparently JLR have addressed this

I think it might've been the Defender or Range Rover where they cut a hole in a certain place on the tailgate that gives access to the wiring.

[Terminator X]

Get secondary security, not that hard really.

TX.

[poppopbangbang]

Tomo1971 said:

How do the wrong 'uns work out these vulnerabilities?

Is someone leaking info from the dealers / manufacturers etc?

In the same way there are lots of above board people researching access to vehicle control units for the purposes of remapping etc. there are just as many below board people researching access to vehicle control units for the purpose of opening and starting the car without the keys.

Generally access to the vehicle CAN network is found in some exterior accesible way and a vehicle with the key present etc. is used to determine the difference in the bus/buses between a locked car and an unlocked car, on some it is as simple as spoofing the same messages that exist on the unlocked car to open it, on others it's much more complex.

Once you're in there's a few attack vectors, some very similar to the above, others involve waking up the correct control units (if they aren't already) so you can program another key or a variant of.

When you've established how to steal a model then the tools become available through the usual suspects for "locksmiths" to use and require very little to no skill in actual operation vs the research required to create the tool in the first place.

The most secure car these days is likely one with a physical key and locks in the doors as all the thieves who are skilled in stealing those retired a decade ago

[MXRod]

[quote=Terminator X]Get secondary security, not that hard really.

TX. [/quot
This I have done , My Skoda Karoq 4x4 may seem to be undesirable to some , but as it shares the same running gear as many VAG variants it is still vulnerable .

[Mr Pointy]

Does installing a Ghost stop CANBUS attacks?

[TUS373]

Lexus owner here. Local dealer took my car in and fitted security that prevents these CANBUS attacks. I am not going to give details for obvious reasons. However, as a manufacturer, they have acted well in doing this for me and free of charge.

I still use a steering wheel arm though ....as a would be theft will not know about the additional security until taking the car apart.

Seen similar attacks done on JLR vehicles too.

[Tea Pot One]

I had a Rav4 PHEV .... they are also stolen this way and to be fair it is all over the internet and YouTube with videos of it being done too - one guy even had then use a grinder to get his Disklok off in seconds too !!

I sold my Rav4 and went back to pure petrol. The insurance was £865 versus £2500 for the Rav4 which was madness and apparently due to the thefts.

I used a Disklok or Stoplock Pro Elite on the Rav4 depending on mood and had a tracker fitted too. The Ghost and Meta Deadlock would both not work on my PHEV due to the way the hybrid system works which was somewhat annoying.

A few have gone near me in London and a Lexus off a drive a couple of days ago via the same method.

FWIW Disklok have a newer 'Gold' Edition' and even a 'Diamond' Sold Secure rated one coming which is made with angle grinder resistant properties .... I am guessing a similar material composite to the newest D Locks for motorbikes and bicycles - Hiplok D1000 / DX1000 and Litelok X1 / X3. These are 'blunting' disc cutters quite well it seems where normal locks are treated with contempt.

The newest disklok will be £270 though so had better be on a different level for that money !!

I think a steering lock will put off most of the thieves but as the YT video showed, they came with a disc cutter too, not just the necessary electronics ! All for a simple Rav4 !

The dealers are fixing the security upgrade now and the newest models I think have a software change as well to stop it being done - until the thieves manage a workaround I guess ....