Stereo sounds rubbish, is speaker placement to blame?
Discussion
Hi All hoping some knowledgable people will be able to help me out!
I have a 2005 mercedes sprinter long wheel base, home camper conversion. I have a 10mm thick plywood shelf above the cab area. The shelf has 2 brackets at the front and a support bar along it's back edge. The bar is bolted to the van at either end, in the middle of the bar is a metal upright that is also bolted to the van.
I have a pioneer 4800 ??? head unit, bluetooth, dab etc. Linked directly to 2 focal 4 inch speakers to replace the standard merc ones in the dash (I do have tweeters and crossovers, but havent fitted them yet).
I have a very old amp under the drivers seat that powers the 2 6x9 rear speakers. These are also Focal units, each one is mounted in a MDF (or similar) box (bought from ebay). The boxes are screwed to the shelf and face into the back of the van.
You can just about make them out in this picture.
The problem as per the thread title is that the stereo, sounds awful. There is way too much bass, causing a real 'thud thud thud' above my head (not great when driving). If I adjust the audio settings to get rid os the bass I lose all 'oomph' is the music, meaning it has to be turned up load to hear it clearly, it's then too loud to be able to talk over.
I'm wondering f the placement of the speakers on the shelf is the problem, or could it be the old amp I'm using has 'died a bit' and is sending the wrong kind of signals out?
I have a 2005 mercedes sprinter long wheel base, home camper conversion. I have a 10mm thick plywood shelf above the cab area. The shelf has 2 brackets at the front and a support bar along it's back edge. The bar is bolted to the van at either end, in the middle of the bar is a metal upright that is also bolted to the van.
I have a pioneer 4800 ??? head unit, bluetooth, dab etc. Linked directly to 2 focal 4 inch speakers to replace the standard merc ones in the dash (I do have tweeters and crossovers, but havent fitted them yet).
I have a very old amp under the drivers seat that powers the 2 6x9 rear speakers. These are also Focal units, each one is mounted in a MDF (or similar) box (bought from ebay). The boxes are screwed to the shelf and face into the back of the van.
You can just about make them out in this picture.
The problem as per the thread title is that the stereo, sounds awful. There is way too much bass, causing a real 'thud thud thud' above my head (not great when driving). If I adjust the audio settings to get rid os the bass I lose all 'oomph' is the music, meaning it has to be turned up load to hear it clearly, it's then too loud to be able to talk over.
I'm wondering f the placement of the speakers on the shelf is the problem, or could it be the old amp I'm using has 'died a bit' and is sending the wrong kind of signals out?
Looks like the speaker boxes are in the cavity above the cab? This will act as a great big boomy box...
Also worth considering that 6x9's aren't always designed to live in enclosures. Often they're installed in parcel shelves etc. You've essentially created 2 bass boxes....
Also, if you've got no tweeters fitted in the front all you're getting is mid range from the front, and bass from above. The tweeters on the 6x9's will be firing the only treble in the system into the back of the van (treble is very 'directionable') Fit the tweeters in the front and see if it balances out the sound.
What does it sound like from the back of the van, facing the 6x9's?
Also worth considering that 6x9's aren't always designed to live in enclosures. Often they're installed in parcel shelves etc. You've essentially created 2 bass boxes....
Also, if you've got no tweeters fitted in the front all you're getting is mid range from the front, and bass from above. The tweeters on the 6x9's will be firing the only treble in the system into the back of the van (treble is very 'directionable') Fit the tweeters in the front and see if it balances out the sound.
What does it sound like from the back of the van, facing the 6x9's?
Edited by cbmotorsport on Tuesday 27th February 16:36
Edited by cbmotorsport on Tuesday 27th February 16:39
Edited by cbmotorsport on Tuesday 27th February 16:42
Thanks for the reply.
What you say about 'double bass bins' makes good sense, I thought the placement was the problem but was thinking that the shelf was vibrating.
I had considered putting a wooden face on the front of the shelf to box it in, I was then figuring I could face mount the speakers on the panel (doing away with the boxes they are in). This would leave me with a 'small boot' sized enclosure behind the speakers. Do you think this might work?
What you say about 'double bass bins' makes good sense, I thought the placement was the problem but was thinking that the shelf was vibrating.
I had considered putting a wooden face on the front of the shelf to box it in, I was then figuring I could face mount the speakers on the panel (doing away with the boxes they are in). This would leave me with a 'small boot' sized enclosure behind the speakers. Do you think this might work?
Use an online speaker box calculator and see if the problem is solved, there are many online calculators and one is here - http://www.mh-audio.nl/spk_calc.asp
Your box up front has the wrong shape and size for your speakers. What you are getting is standing wave booming of your mid bass range. You can easily solve this with a little work and a few quid. What I'd recommend is removing the bass element from the box up front by sending up only mid and high, and sending the bass, the proper deep stuff, elsewhere, like a small bass box.
You can get three way speakers with crossovers for small money if you shop around.
These cost £60
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01LBI67RE/ref...
I use them in my tvr.
Power them with something like this
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00FF4QSI4/ref...
£60 for an amp.
Put the mids and tweeters where you like. In the box will do.
Put the subs in their own box. Or ignore them and buy a small box with sub .
Seperately the highs and lows will mean you get sweet low bass that is unintrusive. If the bass booms you can move the box.
If you don't want to do anything like that then get a head unit with at least a seven band eq and then you can wind back the mid bass, leaving only the lower frequency bass. Thinking about it, this is by far your easiest route and a head unit will not set you back more than £50 if need be.
You can get three way speakers with crossovers for small money if you shop around.
These cost £60
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01LBI67RE/ref...
I use them in my tvr.
Power them with something like this
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00FF4QSI4/ref...
£60 for an amp.
Put the mids and tweeters where you like. In the box will do.
Put the subs in their own box. Or ignore them and buy a small box with sub .
Seperately the highs and lows will mean you get sweet low bass that is unintrusive. If the bass booms you can move the box.
If you don't want to do anything like that then get a head unit with at least a seven band eq and then you can wind back the mid bass, leaving only the lower frequency bass. Thinking about it, this is by far your easiest route and a head unit will not set you back more than £50 if need be.
Same head unit as mine :-) 7 band Eq. Easily adjusted on the app too.
See how you get on. Another trick can be to fill the box with soft material like rockwool / sound absorbant stuff - like loft insulation.
My lounge speakers boom due to being in room corners so I stuffed socks in the bass ports. Works a charm.
See how you get on. Another trick can be to fill the box with soft material like rockwool / sound absorbant stuff - like loft insulation.
My lounge speakers boom due to being in room corners so I stuffed socks in the bass ports. Works a charm.
Ohh stuffing the box.....
sorry LOLZ
but in all seriousness if I fill the box the speakers are in it might have a positive affect?
I can't really fill the shelf the boxes are on as it would kind of take away the point of a shelf !!
PS you say app, do you mean the ARC remote control app ?
sorry LOLZ
but in all seriousness if I fill the box the speakers are in it might have a positive affect?
I can't really fill the shelf the boxes are on as it would kind of take away the point of a shelf !!
PS you say app, do you mean the ARC remote control app ?
Arc app - yes. Less confusing way to adjust all the settings including the eq.
Stuffing - for real. Though I assumed the box the speakers are in is sealed. That's what causes all the booming, them being in a box. If it is no sealed then ignore the stuffing ! ... And if they are in an open box then you should have no bass at all, let alone booming...
If you open up most home speaker cabinets they are not empty. They are filled with wadding material to dampen low frequencies.
Stuffing - for real. Though I assumed the box the speakers are in is sealed. That's what causes all the booming, them being in a box. If it is no sealed then ignore the stuffing ! ... And if they are in an open box then you should have no bass at all, let alone booming...
If you open up most home speaker cabinets they are not empty. They are filled with wadding material to dampen low frequencies.
Just read read your original post. I'm talking about stuffing the MDF boxes the speakers are in, but to be honest, they don't look too big, though hard to see in the pic you posted. It may be their small size that is causing the booming, that and them being near head height.
I think they eq will be your friend here.
I think they eq will be your friend here.
That pic helps. Play with arc. I reckon the fact they are in boxes in a shelf is most of the problem. The boxes are quite small compared to the space the speaker would normally have in a door , and then placing them in a confined area like your shelf will increase boom.
You are just going to have to experiment. I'd be surprised if you can't dial most of it out with the eq.
You are just going to have to experiment. I'd be surprised if you can't dial most of it out with the eq.
Change your front door speakers & add some tweeters:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/INFINITY-Reference-twee...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Alpine-SPR-174A-6-75-In...
The above would bring the sound back into the cab & placing the tweeters up near the front windscreen, the crossovers will make sure the 10cm front speakers aren't getting to much bass going through them which will clean up the sound from those then you run speaker wire to (you do this by wiring up the front speakers in 8 ohm) the 17cm.
Forgot to add the 17cm speakers go in the door (you'll have an opening there to accept them
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/INFINITY-Reference-twee...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Alpine-SPR-174A-6-75-In...
The above would bring the sound back into the cab & placing the tweeters up near the front windscreen, the crossovers will make sure the 10cm front speakers aren't getting to much bass going through them which will clean up the sound from those then you run speaker wire to (you do this by wiring up the front speakers in 8 ohm) the 17cm.
Forgot to add the 17cm speakers go in the door (you'll have an opening there to accept them
JodyKTM said:
^^^^
It's mainly about the cab when driving.
As said earlier, the 6x9s are really not going to work for your application. They should be free to air, not boxed. And if you were going to box them, the boxes would need to be much, much bigger than you currently. Even worse, you have them positioned behind you and pointing away from you. And as previously said, treble/high is directional (bass is not). It's mainly about the cab when driving.
So if I was you, I'd forget about the 6x9s. Find another car for them or sell them. Fit the Focal components (preferably with the drivers in the door) and play about with mounting the tweeters on the dash/a-pillar to find the best position. Run these off of the front channel on the HU (via the crossover).
Connect the amp to the Rear RCA channel and use this to power a set of bookshelf or small hifi speakers, to replace the 6x9s for music in the cabin. The speakers will no doubt be 8ohm and the amp 4ohm, so you'll be halving the amp power output. But if you choose some high sensitivity speakers, the amp should still be more than enough for decent sound. I'd also get an integrated amp/sub (maybe an underseat one) and connect this to the sub-out RCA.
When driving, set the fader to front and when in the back, set the fader to rear.
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