Cerbera speed six upgrade

[Hedgetrimmer]

I am considering buying a speed 6 4.0 ltr cerb which was re chassis'd in 2005 and has a rebuilt engine by the factory in 2003 (14k miles ago). Its a standard engine and I was wondering whether I can liberate more powwer than 350 bhp without rebuilding the bottom end. Is it possible to work on the top end or is does it require bottom end mods?

I was looking for an AJP but it seems like the reliability of the speed 6 has been improved and it is capable of similar power.

[dvs_dave]

Bottom end is not a weak point on a n/a Speed 6. Factory rebuilds are sketchy as it was never clear what was actually rebuilt.

For peace of mind, get a full TVR Power rebuild along with the 5 year 100k mile warranty. Unbeatable.....even by mainstream manufacturers outside of Hyundai!

[Smooth Smith]

Hasn't Power only just started offering the 100k warranty though? Would be extremely lucky to find one so soon.

[T40ORA]

I'd wait until Racing Green have their Gen 2 FFF head and cams up and running. Then compare one of their rebuilds with a Power one.

[The Pits]

it doesn't inspire much confidence that they've had to develop a 'gen 2'

that suggests something was not quite right with the 'gen 1'

[Alan Kee]

The Pits said:

it doesn't inspire much confidence that they've had to develop a 'gen 2'

that suggests something was not quite right with the 'gen 1'

Evolution is something that happens in engineering .. just like the Misubishi Evo became the Evo10 or whatever they're onto now. Just means that development never stops, which is a good thing surely ??

[The Pits]

if that is the case

I'd like some information about what either Gen offers. I can't find any info on the FFF head on RG's website. Nothing on youtube. No dyno charts. Just the odd post on here.

[Alan Kee]

There was recently a nice write up on the FFF stuff in Sprint magazine.

[s5tvr]

Alan Kee said:

There was recently a nice write up on the FFF stuff in Sprint magazine.

From recollection a lot of column inches were given over to RG and their new development partner to promote their new head design but I don't remember any facts being given. What struck me at the time was how they managed to jump to a new head design without any obvious evidence of the old one being a success. In fact I thought the article seemed to hint that the old design had fallen short of expectations. Also, I don't remember any warranty details being given with regard to the new head design.

[pete]

I understood from conversations with RG that the new head involved less fabrication and assembly than the old design, which was intended to be a retro fit into a machined TVR head. The new approach looks like a completely new head.

In the end, I went with a TVR Power 4.3 upgrade and haven't regretted it for a second. The engine is miles smoother, still revs like crazy, and pulls like a train - plus it has a 5 year warranty. It will be interesting to see whether the RG design lives up to the promise it shows on paper.

Cheers,
Pete

[The Pits]

It does seem odd how quiet RG are being about it. there's nothing about the FFF head on their website.

Although I'd favour the TVR Power approach I should add that I whole heartedly welcome other respectable companies developing the Speed 6. It's nice to have other options and the competition is healthy. It's really good news for the owners that the S6 continues to improve since TVR's demise.

[T40ORA]

The Pits said:

if that is the case

I'd like some information about what either Gen offers. I can't find any info on the FFF head on RG's website. Nothing on youtube. No dyno charts. Just the odd post on here.

Call them up, they don't bite, even if you are only curious. They're god guys and more than happy to talk. As it's still being tested they would be daft to publish too much information in terms of figures - it would just be vapourware. I guess that they just have a different approach to advertising than other companies on here. As I understand it, Gen2 came about because they changed the manufacturer of the heads. These new guys were more on the ball in terms of the design and modelling software that they use and help RG identify some further possible improvements and benefits.

Colin at RG will give you all the info you need.

Edited by T40ORA on Wednesday 24th November 07:41

[pete]

T40ORA said:

Call them up, they don't bite

I second that - Brian at RG is a great bloke, looked after my Tuscan for 4 years when he was at Fernhurst until I had it rebuilt.

If you're spending the thick end of £10k on engine work, you owe it to yourself to spend a lot of time talking to the people who are going to do the work. RG, Dom, Jason at STR8 Six were all on my list, and all very helpful.

Pete

[Basil Brush]

dvs_dave said:

Factory rebuilds are sketchy as it was never clear what was actually rebuilt.

I think it was if it was your car and you asked them. They just didn't give anything in writing.

[s5tvr]

T40ORA said:

As it's still being tested they would be daft to publish too much information in terms of figures - it would just be vapourware.

Fair enough on the new head design, but I don't remember much ever being released on the old design in terms of power/torque or reliability. If you're confident in your product in this arena you get it independently tested (dyno'd) and publish the results.

I have to say of the 3 main rebuild options (Power, Str8Six & RG) I know least about the Gen 1 RG offering other than on paper it looked very expensive for little or no extra power and for the warranty offered.

[dpd3047]

To my knowledge the first heads were machined with a seperate cam carrier for the bucket tappets these were only for development, then they went to the manufacturer of the tvr designed head to manufacture new castings with the buckets and carrier i was told by the man who made them that he did 25 castings. then they went to another manufacturer.?

[dvs_dave]

T40ORA said:

I guess that they just have a different approach to advertising than other companies on here.

So much so that the prevailing impression is that they offer a nicely engineered but under developed and expensive re-invention of the wheel that's nothing special power, reliability or warranty wise.

Perhaps that's an overly harsh judgement but its something that RG is seemingly doing little to counter. It's almost as though they're not really that bothered about the product or its sales?

[T40ORA]

dvs_dave said:

T40ORA said:

I guess that they just have a different approach to advertising than other companies on here.

So much so that the prevailing impression is that they offer a nicely engineered but under developed and expensive re-invention of the wheel that's nothing special power, reliability or warranty wise.

Perhaps that's an overly harsh judgement but its something that RG is seemingly doing little to counter. It's almost as though they're not really that bothered about the product or its sales?

Without being inflamatory - everyone is using the words 'seems' 'impression' 'as though'. Just talk to them. The heads and cams are still in development, and Colin is rightly cautious publishing too much without the proof to back it up. Today's examples of marketing and advertising are borrowing much from the American market where products are hyped up and promoted to within an inch of their death.

The guys at RG are a tad more old school and cautious - it is as simple as that. Talk to them, they will tell you about the situation with gen 1 FFF heads, status of gen 2 and what they are hoping for.

But at the moment it is just on paper - until they get the demo car up and running. Which might well be this week, so I hope to swing by them tomorrow.

[dvs_dave]

T40ORA said:

....everyone is using the words 'seems' 'impression' 'as though'.

When the only info being circulated is secondhand hearsay how can anyone say anything different?

American marketing techniques or not, in a niche market like this, not releasing any meaningful information about your product or it's development process is not going to win you many customers as people get fed-up of waiting.

The market for Speed 6 rebuilding is not an expanding one.

[s5tvr]

dvs_dave said:

When the only info being circulated is secondhand hearsay how can anyone say anything different?

American marketing techniques or not, in a niche market like this, not releasing any meaningful information about your product or it's development process is not going to win you many customers as people get fed-up of waiting.

The market for Speed 6 rebuilding is not an expanding one.

Couldn't agree more. IMO, RG have a lot of ground to make up compared to Power and Str8Six. I seem to remember a figure of 475bhp being quoted from the article in sprint which would be nice, but how much would it cost given the only figures I can find for the Gen 1 head was 392bhp (Surrey Rolling Road I think ?) and a c£9k cost !. Presumably the Gen 2 head rebuild would cost more and what about warranty ?

I've been toying with the idea of an upgrade for some time now and to be honest RG are not even on my shortlist.