Bring on the trumpets (air delivery question)
Discussion
I've had the idea for some time to upgrade the stock airbox but wanted to try something different. I could go down the route of the ACT carbon airbox at a cost of ~1k and I'm sure that will be great but I like to tweak and modify things and would like a bespoke solution.
The route I've decided upon is to fit a cold air duct to the front bumper (Tamora) with neoprene ducting to a Reverie 6 cyl carbon air chamber that houses 6 individually filtered carbon trumpets.
I'd like to point out that this isn't a 'I want 8 billion horse power' etc...it's more about making something different.
Has anyone done this or have any thoughts on it? I'm sure that the car will not lose power with this installation and will infact be getting a much better source of air that is cold rather than the hot, ill fitting stock airbox. I thought on the trumpet front I would fit trumpets that matched the stock airbox length and diameter (much like the ACT item) to be safe as playing with trumpet length etc can have an impact (not always positive) on an engine.
The route I've decided upon is to fit a cold air duct to the front bumper (Tamora) with neoprene ducting to a Reverie 6 cyl carbon air chamber that houses 6 individually filtered carbon trumpets.
I'd like to point out that this isn't a 'I want 8 billion horse power' etc...it's more about making something different.
Has anyone done this or have any thoughts on it? I'm sure that the car will not lose power with this installation and will infact be getting a much better source of air that is cold rather than the hot, ill fitting stock airbox. I thought on the trumpet front I would fit trumpets that matched the stock airbox length and diameter (much like the ACT item) to be safe as playing with trumpet length etc can have an impact (not always positive) on an engine.
I've often wondered about this but have thought that with individual trumpet filters you would probably end up with a lower overall filter area than standard which isn't ideal.
With the standard airbox, it fits fairly well around the TB's, it's just where it joins the lower half around the filter it's a bit rubbish. I reckon that modifying the upper half so that the filter slots in and fits well into that would be a good option?
Alternatively, ditch the panel filter, seal the two halfs of the air box together and stick a cone filter on the bottom with a cold air feed from the front.
One thing you might want to try is driving around with a laptop connected up to the ECU and recording the inlet temps before and after your mods.
Interested to see how you get on.
With the standard airbox, it fits fairly well around the TB's, it's just where it joins the lower half around the filter it's a bit rubbish. I reckon that modifying the upper half so that the filter slots in and fits well into that would be a good option?
Alternatively, ditch the panel filter, seal the two halfs of the air box together and stick a cone filter on the bottom with a cold air feed from the front.
One thing you might want to try is driving around with a laptop connected up to the ECU and recording the inlet temps before and after your mods.
Interested to see how you get on.
Inlet temps could be measured using the data display on the dash?
I also thought of the cone filter (only on the front) with a cold air feed but decided I would need to shield it really from the engine temps which would add to the job.
I've never really given much attention to n/a before coming from turbo tuning but I'll be sure to post up what I do and how I've done it.
Mark
I also thought of the cone filter (only on the front) with a cold air feed but decided I would need to shield it really from the engine temps which would add to the job.
I've never really given much attention to n/a before coming from turbo tuning but I'll be sure to post up what I do and how I've done it.
Mark
I don't think you can monitor the inlet temp from the instrument pod (well you can't on the Tuscan), you have to connect the ECU up to a laptop running the TVR diagnostic software which has realtime data logging, including inlet air temp.
In all honesty though and from work done by others, the airbox is actually pretty well designed and when on the move hot inlet air isn't a particular problem. The airbox and inlet is well away from the heat of the exhausts and radiator, and being made from plastic, it isn't really susceptible to heat soak either. IMHO the only areas where it needs improvement is the join between the two halfs where the filter goes, and perhaps the throttle body/trumpet interface.
In all honesty though and from work done by others, the airbox is actually pretty well designed and when on the move hot inlet air isn't a particular problem. The airbox and inlet is well away from the heat of the exhausts and radiator, and being made from plastic, it isn't really susceptible to heat soak either. IMHO the only areas where it needs improvement is the join between the two halfs where the filter goes, and perhaps the throttle body/trumpet interface.
interesting topic, I considered exactly the same thing a while ago, but decided to stay with the standard set up which I believe works very well, one thing that may help is at the bottom of the inlet pipe where it connects to the sump tray, why not fit a plate about an inch in depth just behind the hole in the tray pointing down towards the floor, this may have the same effect as a front splitter used on the griff and chims to cause turbulance in the airflow going under the car be directed up into the radiator, except in this case it may help force air up into the intake hole.
Took the bonnet off the Tuscan the other day and found 6 individual trumpets, and an injector tie wrapped to one (cold start?) Will post a picture when I take the bonnet of next, maybe tomorrow. I am also looking at throwing it on a dyno to establish a baseline as I have no history on the car/engine.
Thanks
N
Thanks
N
Rick it would be great to see your engine, although unfiltered trumpets is a quick way to a dead engine (or so it's widely believed on road cars).
I used the same 'scoop' technique to pull air from the underside of the car on my old MR2. The intercooler was mounted in the boot lying flat, the under floor was a huge scoop to drag air through it and the top of the bootlid was reverse vented to allow the air out...worked very well.
I'm thinking of 45ish deg silicone pipe with trumpets and an airbox at the moment, off to see Reverie in a few weeks so will know more then.
I used the same 'scoop' technique to pull air from the underside of the car on my old MR2. The intercooler was mounted in the boot lying flat, the under floor was a huge scoop to drag air through it and the top of the bootlid was reverse vented to allow the air out...worked very well.
I'm thinking of 45ish deg silicone pipe with trumpets and an airbox at the moment, off to see Reverie in a few weeks so will know more then.
Sorry left out the word 'filters', should have read 'individual trumpet filters'.
Running the engine without filters will kill the engine. The other debate is over the validity of dyno figures over 'on the road figures', on GP bikes we used a flexible inlet trumpet under the front fairing that squashed when the bike tipped in for the corner, but had a bigger cross sectional area when on the straight. Although we couldn't prove it on a dyno, the 'ram-air' effect was noticeable by the rider and sector times.
Will take the photo tomorrow.
Running the engine without filters will kill the engine. The other debate is over the validity of dyno figures over 'on the road figures', on GP bikes we used a flexible inlet trumpet under the front fairing that squashed when the bike tipped in for the corner, but had a bigger cross sectional area when on the straight. Although we couldn't prove it on a dyno, the 'ram-air' effect was noticeable by the rider and sector times.
Will take the photo tomorrow.
Great Rick..sounds like an interesting engine 
Live mapping on the road is always preferrable although not always practical.
I had a car mapped a few years back to 448hp on the dyno, on the road in use dependant on weather it was knocking like a b
d so had it remapped to 380hp with little knock. Dyno for pub bragging, live mapping for real world driving.
Live mapping on the road is always preferrable although not always practical.
I had a car mapped a few years back to 448hp on the dyno, on the road in use dependant on weather it was knocking like a b
d so had it remapped to 380hp with little knock. Dyno for pub bragging, live mapping for real world driving.
I believe you, just wanted to see the installation.
That's very interesting...they look like KN or similar filters straight onto the throttle bodies. On the plus it'll sound good under load but on the negative side unless you've got air getting to them they'll possibly draw in hot air?
I love the air temp sensor tied to the filter
On the strength of your pics I'm even more keen to give this a go. I'm a bit caught up at the moment trying to remove the rear silencers for another idea!
That's very interesting...they look like KN or similar filters straight onto the throttle bodies. On the plus it'll sound good under load but on the negative side unless you've got air getting to them they'll possibly draw in hot air?
I love the air temp sensor tied to the filter
On the strength of your pics I'm even more keen to give this a go. I'm a bit caught up at the moment trying to remove the rear silencers for another idea!
Not sure if you can see it but the air scoop is still in place, about 4" pipe so there should be plenty of cold air, and it does sound great under load. Took it for a ride tonight and at 4deg C it was fun fun fun. It wasn't my work, I bought it like that and haven't dyno'd it yet.
Interested in the silencers, for some reason i unhooked both hanger rubbers (the wheelarch ones) today, once getting it out of the garage and once in the mother of all pot holes. The exhaust hangs really low and is not centered, so I was considering a stainless custom job without the silencers or at least relocated. I am not keen on the fact that the silencers aren't supported and it is the 3rd time I have unhooked the wheelarch rubbers. I haven't had it on a ramp yet so will need to have a look at it. I have some software for exhaust design, but haven't got enough info yet.
All interesting though.
Interested in the silencers, for some reason i unhooked both hanger rubbers (the wheelarch ones) today, once getting it out of the garage and once in the mother of all pot holes. The exhaust hangs really low and is not centered, so I was considering a stainless custom job without the silencers or at least relocated. I am not keen on the fact that the silencers aren't supported and it is the 3rd time I have unhooked the wheelarch rubbers. I haven't had it on a ramp yet so will need to have a look at it. I have some software for exhaust design, but haven't got enough info yet.
All interesting though.
Gassing Station | Speed Six Engine | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff