DIY diagnosing head gasket failure.
Discussion
Is there any method for confirming head gasket failure without removing cylinder head?
Cars symptoms below
Using a lot of coolant but cannot see any physical leaks or drips on floor and there are no water marks on the header tank so I think the filler cap is ok.
The car starts first time, ticks over seems fine and as smooth as a speed six engine can, and it doesn’t seem to be down on power.
Racing Greens have recently fitted a new all aluminium radiator, plus all new hoses and fans which are kicking in ok.
I the only other thing I could think of was maybe the temperature sensor were weeping so I removed the top of the airbox to check and they seem fine too.
But one thing I did notice was the inside walls of the oil breather pipe were covered in a thick white gung which is usually a tell tail sign of a failed head gasket, does the same symptoms apply for dry sumped engines as well.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Cars symptoms below
Using a lot of coolant but cannot see any physical leaks or drips on floor and there are no water marks on the header tank so I think the filler cap is ok.
The car starts first time, ticks over seems fine and as smooth as a speed six engine can, and it doesn’t seem to be down on power.
Racing Greens have recently fitted a new all aluminium radiator, plus all new hoses and fans which are kicking in ok.
I the only other thing I could think of was maybe the temperature sensor were weeping so I removed the top of the airbox to check and they seem fine too.
But one thing I did notice was the inside walls of the oil breather pipe were covered in a thick white gung which is usually a tell tail sign of a failed head gasket, does the same symptoms apply for dry sumped engines as well.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Edited by zooooom on Tuesday 12th January 18:01
Sounds like you've tried all the 'external' parts of the cooling system. Water about the water pump housing?
Otherwise it could be leaking out into an exhaust valve and then being pushed out the exhaust. Hard to spot the steam at the moment as there will be plenty of condensation coming out of the pipes due to the current climate. I guess some kind of pressure test would tell you if something isn't right.
When mine went at Snetterton it created a new weather system behind the car - virtually pumping water out of the pipes. Quite cool in a depressing way. I got a 2006 top end rebuild free from the factory for the inconvenience though so this cloud had a silver lining.
Otherwise it could be leaking out into an exhaust valve and then being pushed out the exhaust. Hard to spot the steam at the moment as there will be plenty of condensation coming out of the pipes due to the current climate. I guess some kind of pressure test would tell you if something isn't right.
When mine went at Snetterton it created a new weather system behind the car - virtually pumping water out of the pipes. Quite cool in a depressing way. I got a 2006 top end rebuild free from the factory for the inconvenience though so this cloud had a silver lining.
zooooom said:
jagracer said:
you could take it to a friendly garage and get them to do a sniff test on it.
I will take some samples to local garage don't want to drive the car and increase further damage to engine. zooooom said:
Thanks for the help guy's looks like it's an engine out job either way.
So it look's like I better start looking round for engine builder any recommendation beside listed below.
Straight8six
Austec
TVR Power (maybe little bit far away though)
Racing Greens
Are you in the AA/RAC etc.? If you have homestart and relay cover you can get them to take it for you.So it look's like I better start looking round for engine builder any recommendation beside listed below.
Straight8six
Austec
TVR Power (maybe little bit far away though)
Racing Greens
Hi Paul,
I have to caveat the following that this is my own personal experience, and if your not sure get the car trailered to someone you trust but, I went through exactly the same symptoms same time last year. The outcome was: Condensation in the crankcase.
Water in oil is never a clear indicator of head gasket failure on its own. Oil in the water on the other hand is something to be careful of, but usually manifests as a mayonnaise like liquid inside the water system, i.e. water and oil mixing.
With the oil system at 40-50psi and water system at 10psi the only way the reverse can happen is if the gasket fails between the cylinder and the water jacket, but then you will have steam pi**ing out the front like a steam train.
Water in the oil system has a similar mayonnaise look but in Speed Sixes it appears that cold weather, oil tank in the freezing air flow and low overall oil temps conspire to encourage condensation in the crank case mixing as water with the oil as opposed to boiling off as normal.
As the engine was running well, I cleaned out the breather tube, changed the oil and filter, drove for a bit, repeated the above cleaning cycle, drove some more, rechecked the breather tube and all was clear. At no time did the engine miss a beat and a year on she's still pulling like a train (and no not a steam loco
). From what I've experienced in rallying blown head gaskets have a habit of not leaving you in any doubt.
Hope this helps, it’s always good to be cautious and we're all a little nervous about our Speed6s' but I think we're sometimes a little to eager to rip them out and strip them down.
Steve
I have to caveat the following that this is my own personal experience, and if your not sure get the car trailered to someone you trust but, I went through exactly the same symptoms same time last year. The outcome was: Condensation in the crankcase.
Water in oil is never a clear indicator of head gasket failure on its own. Oil in the water on the other hand is something to be careful of, but usually manifests as a mayonnaise like liquid inside the water system, i.e. water and oil mixing.
With the oil system at 40-50psi and water system at 10psi the only way the reverse can happen is if the gasket fails between the cylinder and the water jacket, but then you will have steam pi**ing out the front like a steam train.
Water in the oil system has a similar mayonnaise look but in Speed Sixes it appears that cold weather, oil tank in the freezing air flow and low overall oil temps conspire to encourage condensation in the crank case mixing as water with the oil as opposed to boiling off as normal.
As the engine was running well, I cleaned out the breather tube, changed the oil and filter, drove for a bit, repeated the above cleaning cycle, drove some more, rechecked the breather tube and all was clear. At no time did the engine miss a beat and a year on she's still pulling like a train (and no not a steam loco
). From what I've experienced in rallying blown head gaskets have a habit of not leaving you in any doubt.Hope this helps, it’s always good to be cautious and we're all a little nervous about our Speed6s' but I think we're sometimes a little to eager to rip them out and strip them down.
Steve
Quick update
I haven't as of yet tackled the problem, I have just been to busy.
All I have done to the car is start it and drive it for a few miles to get the temperatures up and get some oil circulating around engine every weekend.
I did take the car out tonight again for a few miles then left it sitting on driveway ticking over for five minute's, but still cannot see any physical leaks.
After shut down I did a visual check of the oil and water and both look nice and clear. I also shone a torch into both oil and water reservoir's and they both looks nice and clean with no furring or mayonnaise.
The only other place I can think of that it could be losing water is via the heater matrix.
Thanks everyone for advise.
I haven't as of yet tackled the problem, I have just been to busy.
All I have done to the car is start it and drive it for a few miles to get the temperatures up and get some oil circulating around engine every weekend.
I did take the car out tonight again for a few miles then left it sitting on driveway ticking over for five minute's, but still cannot see any physical leaks.
After shut down I did a visual check of the oil and water and both look nice and clear. I also shone a torch into both oil and water reservoir's and they both looks nice and clean with no furring or mayonnaise.
The only other place I can think of that it could be losing water is via the heater matrix.
Thanks everyone for advise.
Edited by zooooom on Monday 8th February 20:39
Chased water leaks around on mine for ages.
For a few quid it is worth replacing expansion tank cap, and remember they do tend to find their own water level which is not necessarily manufacturers filler mark.
Hoses can sweat out water if old. Only noticable when hot.
Mine had fluctuating water-header pressure and minor condensation in oil header. Ended up with a replacement block alas, but now it does not lose a drop or show any signs of condensation, but using it every day helps keep that clear
Hope you have more luck than me.
For a few quid it is worth replacing expansion tank cap, and remember they do tend to find their own water level which is not necessarily manufacturers filler mark.
Hoses can sweat out water if old. Only noticable when hot.
Mine had fluctuating water-header pressure and minor condensation in oil header. Ended up with a replacement block alas, but now it does not lose a drop or show any signs of condensation, but using it every day helps keep that clear
Hope you have more luck than me.
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