Intermittent ticking noise solved (hopefully)
Discussion
Over the last 1k miles or so my car has developed an intermittent ticking noise, when it starts its most noticeable at 2200-2600 rpm, its rev dependant and there both on and off load, the majority of the time it can not be heard.
I have never managed to solve the issue, as by the time I had got the car home and checked it, its stopped and even when checking with a stethoscope all goods fine.
The clearances where checked 3k miles ago when I had an issue with a finger follower and only a couple were out which were reset at the time. In the hunt for the cure to this bloody ticking, today I decided to take the top off give it a good look over and check the clearances again, all were in limit apart from 3, the worse being (0.014”), first one I remove appears that it may be the cause of my ticking.
It has a groove worn in it, when checking the clearance on this it was 0.013” so only 1 thou over the limit, the groove is noticeable when you run you nail over it so I expect a good few thou deep which when checking the clearance wont be found. The edges of the groove are rounded which suggest its has been spinning which could give me the intermittent effect. I wont know the full extent of the wear till I can get it measured properly as a normal micrometer wont measure to the bottom of the groove.
The finger follower is fine, no grooves, and the surface is perfectly smooth, the shim appears to have a burred edge, this may have stopped it moving in the retainer cause it to wear unevenly.
All being well I can get a new shim sent out and once back together it will be tick free!
Pic of said shim….
I have never managed to solve the issue, as by the time I had got the car home and checked it, its stopped and even when checking with a stethoscope all goods fine.
The clearances where checked 3k miles ago when I had an issue with a finger follower and only a couple were out which were reset at the time. In the hunt for the cure to this bloody ticking, today I decided to take the top off give it a good look over and check the clearances again, all were in limit apart from 3, the worse being (0.014”), first one I remove appears that it may be the cause of my ticking.
It has a groove worn in it, when checking the clearance on this it was 0.013” so only 1 thou over the limit, the groove is noticeable when you run you nail over it so I expect a good few thou deep which when checking the clearance wont be found. The edges of the groove are rounded which suggest its has been spinning which could give me the intermittent effect. I wont know the full extent of the wear till I can get it measured properly as a normal micrometer wont measure to the bottom of the groove.
The finger follower is fine, no grooves, and the surface is perfectly smooth, the shim appears to have a burred edge, this may have stopped it moving in the retainer cause it to wear unevenly.
All being well I can get a new shim sent out and once back together it will be tick free!
Pic of said shim….
mine makes a ticking noise, noticeable through the bulkhead at 1500-2000 rpm. 2 specialists have said its normal, and the very early cars are the worst for engine noise.
I just changed oil to mobil 1 0w40 and its even more obvious now. Ill try 15w50 next time.
I put up with it now.
If you 1 thou out it wont make any difference, but nice to get things right.
I just changed oil to mobil 1 0w40 and its even more obvious now. Ill try 15w50 next time.
I put up with it now.
If you 1 thou out it wont make any difference, but nice to get things right.
I had a couple of shim's replaced last week as part of the usual 12k service, one of them showed the above 'spinning' problem but it was very minor (I beleive it may have even been at the correct tolerance, but the shim was visually inspected).
This might be something you make sure any servicer looks at.
This might be something you make sure any servicer looks at.
RiddleMcFiddle said:
mine makes a ticking noise, noticeable through the bulkhead at 1500-2000 rpm. 2 specialists have said its normal, and the very early cars are the worst for engine noise.
I just changed oil to mobil 1 0w40 and its even more obvious now. Ill try 15w50 next time.
I put up with it now.
If you 1 thou out it wont make any difference, but nice to get things right.
Thats the thing, when measured normally it was only 1 thou above but with the groove in the shim, at times it will have been more like 4-5 thou over the top limit. this would not have been found if i had not have taken to the shim out with the view to replacing it with one a couple of thou thicker.I just changed oil to mobil 1 0w40 and its even more obvious now. Ill try 15w50 next time.
I put up with it now.
If you 1 thou out it wont make any difference, but nice to get things right.
KillerJim said:
I had a couple of shim's replaced last week as part of the usual 12k service, one of them showed the above 'spinning' problem but it was very minor (I beleive it may have even been at the correct tolerance, but the shim was visually inspected).
This might be something you make sure any servicer looks at.
I presume they are meant to spin so they wear evenly, looking at this one its slightly burred up on the edge so im wondering if its actually been tight in the retainer hence the increased localised wear. Definitely something to look out for.This might be something you make sure any servicer looks at.
RiddleMcFiddle said:
mine makes a ticking noise, noticeable through the bulkhead at 1500-2000 rpm. 2 specialists have said its normal, and the very early cars are the worst for engine noise.
I just changed oil to mobil 1 0w40 and its even more obvious now. Ill try 15w50 next time.
I put up with it now.
If you 1 thou out it wont make any difference, but nice to get things right.
I have changed from Mobil 1 10W40 to 5w40 Motul. Engine runsI just changed oil to mobil 1 0w40 and its even more obvious now. Ill try 15w50 next time.
I put up with it now.
If you 1 thou out it wont make any difference, but nice to get things right.
a lot smoother, not so loud after cold start, more oil pressure,
looks like mobil definately wrong oil for speed 6!
Try motul 5W40, costs are minmal!
Feeling is much better when engine is more quiet!
Uwe
Just an up date on this, i was hoping to have it all back up and running by now but i was sent used shims. Yes used shims! (From a well known TVR specialist)
One is on its way to being worn as badly as the above, one has a groove worn in it where it been sat on the valve, one is pitted and a thou out of parallel and the other is just pitted.
I rang and complained on Wednesday, received no apology or explanation, they said they would check if they had new ones and ring me back, I never received the call so rang back at 2pm, again no apology and was just told it had been sorted.
Arrive home today and nothing, I made them aware that I’m desperate for these as I need to get the car back together asap as it goes into the body shop on Monday.
I would hope they dont use used, unknown and obviously worn shims in one of there rebuilds. If they dont then why should I?
I will be ringing them tomorrow to see where they are and may have to result from buying them else where so i can get them for saturday.
One is on its way to being worn as badly as the above, one has a groove worn in it where it been sat on the valve, one is pitted and a thou out of parallel and the other is just pitted.
I rang and complained on Wednesday, received no apology or explanation, they said they would check if they had new ones and ring me back, I never received the call so rang back at 2pm, again no apology and was just told it had been sorted.
Arrive home today and nothing, I made them aware that I’m desperate for these as I need to get the car back together asap as it goes into the body shop on Monday.
I would hope they dont use used, unknown and obviously worn shims in one of there rebuilds. If they dont then why should I?
I will be ringing them tomorrow to see where they are and may have to result from buying them else where so i can get them for saturday.
RiddleMcFiddle said:
BGB - i know of 3 specialists now that use used shims.
Infact all garages/motor cycle garages that ive dealt with use 2nd hand shims, so it seems the norm.
I Would like to think that the condition is checked out OK though.
Sorry but we are not talking about a general car or motorbike here, the speed 6 has know valve train issues, poor quality parts, design issues and poor lubrication. Why comprimise on an already weak drive train? using badly dished, grooved or shims that are not parallel will only add to the already excessive side load on the valves, wearing the soft guides even quicker.Infact all garages/motor cycle garages that ive dealt with use 2nd hand shims, so it seems the norm.
I Would like to think that the condition is checked out OK though.
FFS the shims are £2.50 each!
If I paid £7k+ for a rebuild and they used 2nd hand shims I would be livid.
Hi Chris, certainly looks like the problem. Dont know if mine is the same but worth a look i think. Spoke to Dom' at Tvr power and he suspected a follower but i dont see why that would be a sudden fault, rather a progresive one ! To be fair mine sounds worse than a cam/follower clearance issue??
I am considered a rebuild (4.5k + vat). Hefty lump of cash but does give peace of mind, 3ys warranty. I suspected a headgasket leak a while back which i fixed with radweld, did the job but for how long ? At 20k miles the clutch will prob soon need replacing (big labour bill! ) Obviously only the parts to pay for while motor out. When you factor in all new wearing parts, followers, shims, valve guides/seats bearings etc etc, the first service is included, and the car will have a better residual value (say 2K) it does start to make some sense,,i think
. What i dont want is to spend money now on a localised fix, only to go down the rebuild route in the near future.. ah decisions decisions
I am considered a rebuild (4.5k + vat). Hefty lump of cash but does give peace of mind, 3ys warranty. I suspected a headgasket leak a while back which i fixed with radweld, did the job but for how long ? At 20k miles the clutch will prob soon need replacing (big labour bill! ) Obviously only the parts to pay for while motor out. When you factor in all new wearing parts, followers, shims, valve guides/seats bearings etc etc, the first service is included, and the car will have a better residual value (say 2K) it does start to make some sense,,i think
. What i dont want is to spend money now on a localised fix, only to go down the rebuild route in the near future.. ah decisions decisions
All back up and running, people say the Speed 6 is a noisy engine as standard but mine is now nice and quiet.
When cruising at at any thing above 40, just the road noise is sufficient to mask any noises from the engine and thats using may paranoid ears which can spot a ticking TVR from miles away....
Taking extra care and hand finshing all parts gives you much better results than chucking it together!
When cruising at at any thing above 40, just the road noise is sufficient to mask any noises from the engine and thats using may paranoid ears which can spot a ticking TVR from miles away....
Taking extra care and hand finshing all parts gives you much better results than chucking it together!
RiddleMcFiddle said:
Lol - i had my valve clearances done recently and all were done including the rear 2 which most garages dont bother with.
still ticks
Exactly.. all my shim's are done last week to exactly same level (I can`t remember the exact details but I think 6 tho inlet and 12 tho exhaust - or other way round..) and she still (and will always) tick.. its just the speed 6..still ticks
J
All engines have/need clearance and the majority don’t tick, saying it ticks because its a speed six is complete and utter crap. I have worked on VTEC engines for years, they have solid lifters and similar clearance specs and how many of those tick loudly?
If the clearances are set properly they wont be any more audible than any other performance engine. There may be other sounds, piston slap etc but thats totally different.
Granted the bonnet and bulk head wont reduce the levels as much, but with the bonnet open there should be little difference to any other performance engine with a similar valve train set up.
Its strange that one of the "Specialists" that say they are just a noisy engine is the same specialist that sent me used, damaged shims. They couldn't even get the sizes right FFS and two shims that should have been the same size were actually 0.002" different.
The point of my thread was with regard to an intermittent tick that has been a problem to trace, not to debate how noisy it should be, my car now has the clearances set perfectly with shims that are not dished and grooved, and has no intermitant tick and hugely reduced mechanical noise in the cabin while travelling.
If the clearances are set properly they wont be any more audible than any other performance engine. There may be other sounds, piston slap etc but thats totally different.
Granted the bonnet and bulk head wont reduce the levels as much, but with the bonnet open there should be little difference to any other performance engine with a similar valve train set up.
Its strange that one of the "Specialists" that say they are just a noisy engine is the same specialist that sent me used, damaged shims. They couldn't even get the sizes right FFS and two shims that should have been the same size were actually 0.002" different.
The point of my thread was with regard to an intermittent tick that has been a problem to trace, not to debate how noisy it should be, my car now has the clearances set perfectly with shims that are not dished and grooved, and has no intermitant tick and hugely reduced mechanical noise in the cabin while travelling.
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