New ECU at RG

[T40ORA]

Just looking at their website and although I knew they were working on something it looks like they have a pretty cool new ECU available.

http://www.thetvrshop.com/TVR/News/60.htm

I don't pretend to understand half of it, but proper cold and hot idle control, fully mappable and sequential injection sound pretty damned good to me.

I guess that they really need this box of tricks for the supercharged engines but I'm almost willing my ECU to go pop so I can have it in addition to the FFF engine!

Looks like they'll have a Tuscan fitted with it for the open day on the 28th.

[supercopa]

what's the interest in this new ECU exactly for NA engines? I'd think it's not more interesting than the MBE one in first opinion.

[T40ORA]

supercopa said:

what's the interest in this new ECU exactly for NA engines? I'd think it's not more interesting than the MBE one in first opinion.

For me, the fact that with the new FFF engine you could fully map it/program it to maximise the power. Also, the proper cold/hot idle to sort out any starting issues.

As I said, I don't understand half of the technical stuff but I would like to try the Tuscan on Saturday.

[supercopa]

what sounds strange for me is that the MBE ECU already seems to be able to do that : full mapping, cold start... and so ever...

your talking about a Tuscan and your Tamora will be ready on saturday, I'm a bit afraid mine will not. Although I dropped it to RG on early december. Do you know why your Tamora you dropped last week will be ready so fast?

Edited by supercopa on Monday 23 February 23:06

[T40ORA]

supercopa said:

what sounds strange for me is that the MBE ECU already seems to be able to do that : full mapping, cold start... and so ever...

your talking about a Tuscan and your Tamora will be ready on saturday, I'm a bit afraid mine will not. Although I dropped it to RG on early december. Do you know why your Tamora you dropped last week will be ready so fast?

Edited by supercopa on Monday 23 February 23:06

Sebastien, I don't understand the technology fully at all but my understanding is that the new ECU is much improved over the original one. I'll be talking to them about it in detail on Saturday but until them it is simply what I have read on the website.

As for my Tam being ready first,it is because although I only dropped the car off lastweek I "booked" the first available FFF engine back in August or September I think. I was originally destined to have one of their rebuilt engines that preceded the FFF engine, but back in August when my car was due to be done Martin and Colin told me about the FFF development and I agreed to be the first to buy it after Pascal. So since then they have been nursing my engine as much as possible until the engine was actually ready. So since then, Pascal was due to ne the first and I the second. However, as the super charger fitment is not ready yet I think that Pascal has dropped down the list to no 3 leaving me at number 1

I hope that yours is ready soon Sebastien.

[trackcar]

I love seeing people trying new things out on TVR generally speking, and RG seem to be doing a far better job than most right now forging ahead with alternative ways of doing things.

The Omex is a great piece of kit, but then so is the MBE. One truly excellent feature of the MBE though is it's real time adaptive fuel map tables, most aftermarket ECUs have a learning fuel trim/compensation table that you have to manually update, the MBE effectively does it in real time for you not by updating the fuel table but by using a real time compensation map over the top of the fuel table which you then have the option of using to update the fuel map if you so desire, losing that feature would be a step backwards in my opinion. Do you know if the 710 has real time adaptive mapping like the MBE? Changing ECU, injectors, coolant sensor, lambda sensors and remapping etc all seems a lot of hassle for no real gain, unless I've missed something. Features like switchable maps are nice to have but not essential, and i'm assuming RG would lock you out of the ECU anyway to protect their engine so you wouldn't even gain the ability to remap elsewhere or yourself if you wanted to tinker? Only speculation though, should ask RG about it I guess.

I don't understand why they've gone with a single throttle pot (in the interest of reliability?) .. with TVR throttles needing plenty of tweaking at service time to keep them even I would have thought going to a MAP sensor taking a signal average from all 6 inlets would have been a much more sensible way to go .. again maybe I've missed something completely obvious (and I admit to hating mapping with MAP sensors so this may have been one major factor in the choice) .

Edited by trackcar on Tuesday 24th February 08:43

[AJP Griff]

trackcar said:

....The Omex is a great piece of kit, but then so is the MBE. One truly excellent feature of the MBE though is it's real time adaptive fuel map tables, most aftermarket ECUs have a learning fuel trim/compensation table that you have to manually update, the MBE effectively does it in real time for you not by updating the fuel table but by using a real time compensation map over the top of the fuel table which you then have the option of using to update the fuel map if you so desire, losing that feature would be a step backwards in my opinion. Do you know if the 710 has real time adaptive mapping like the MBE? .....]

You already know that the Omex does real time mapping-you mapped mine enough times!
It has to be well worth cosidering an Omex 710 when it costs so much to get the MBE mapped,and yet you stay locked out of it.The Omex is a lovely piece of kit which is very capable and well supported.Best benefit of course is the flexiblity to go wherever you like to get your car mapped,thus being able to avoid using people who cant map properly(yet think they can),and consequently damage engines!!!I've now heard too many different horror stories about this with the MBE and certain 'mappers',and even our own was not mapped well.So the MBE choice is very limited,personally i only know of Austec who i would trust to map one(perhaps Power and staight six can,also?),which isn't always a practical travel proposition if you live up north for instance.
In summary the Omex is definately the way forward imho,it's very capable and very future proof,offering many functions the MBE cannot,full throttle gear shift,anti lag,traction control etc etc.. Well done Racing green!

Edited by AJP Griff on Tuesday 24th February 09:36

[andyoleary]

RG's ECU investigations/developments does seem to be interesting. From what I understand (and I'm no expert), they are also looking at throttle-body modifications/changes. I believe that they are looking at a couple of ideas for changing the way the 6 TB's are controlled, mechanically and electronically. With the current set up of 2 banks of 3 TB's and 2 throttle pots, the system does seem to struggle to keep things within "trim" so the new ECU and potential changes to the TB's in the future (and maybe the Lambda config/location) might mean a much simpler, reliable yet flexible set-up. As I said, I'm not 100% clear on it but from what I've heard it sounds sensible and quite interesting.

Also, again as I understand it, they have sourced a supplier to re-furb the existing TB set so that the spindles etc are properly bushed to remove the poor inlet control at low load/throttle. I have an idea of the likely price level for an exchange unit and it is certainly something that most owners of older (pre-2003?) engines will be interested in taking a look at I reckon. I have a set ear-marked for myself already and hope to have it fitted in March. They will also have a replacement air-box available soon I think (if not already) - straight replacement, nothing too fancy, but should be a better "fit" than the original I believe.

Andy

[trackcar]

AJP Griff said:

trackcar said:

....The Omex is a great piece of kit, but then so is the MBE. One truly excellent feature of the MBE though is it's real time adaptive fuel map tables, most aftermarket ECUs have a learning fuel trim/compensation table that you have to manually update, the MBE effectively does it in real time for you not by updating the fuel table but by using a real time compensation map over the top of the fuel table which you then have the option of using to update the fuel map if you so desire, losing that feature would be a step backwards in my opinion. Do you know if the 710 has real time adaptive mapping like the MBE? .....]

You already know that the Omex does real time mapping-you mapped mine enough times!
It has to be well worth cosidering an Omex 710 when it costs so much to get the MBE mapped,and yet you stay locked out of it.The Omex is a lovely piece of kit which is very capable and well supported.Best benefit of course is the flexiblity to go wherever you like to get your car mapped,thus being able to avoid using people who cant map properly(yet think they can),and consequently damage engines!!!I've now heard too many different horror stories about this with the MBE and certain 'mappers',and even our own was not mapped well.So the MBE choice is very limited,personally i only know of Austec who i would trust to map one(perhaps Power and staight six can,also?),which isn't always a practical travel proposition if you live up north for instance.
In summary the Omex is definately the way forward imho,it's very capable and very future proof,offering many functions the MBE cannot,full throttle gear shift,anti lag,traction control etc etc.. Well done Racing green!

Edited by AJP Griff on Tuesday 24th February 09:36

Quoted for spectacularly missing the point of my post, as usual.

Edited by trackcar on Tuesday 24th February 12:00

[supercopa]

I agree with trackcar going for a single MAP sensor would have been a much more interesting way to go in my opinion. For a SC engine, a single MAP sensor + a single plenum and throttle body would have been a reliable way and efficient way to go.

[PascalBuyens]

T40ORA said:

supercopa said:

what sounds strange for me is that the MBE ECU already seems to be able to do that : full mapping, cold start... and so ever...

your talking about a Tuscan and your Tamora will be ready on saturday, I'm a bit afraid mine will not. Although I dropped it to RG on early december. Do you know why your Tamora you dropped last week will be ready so fast?

Edited by supercopa on Monday 23 February 23:06

Sebastien, I don't understand the technology fully at all but my understanding is that the new ECU is much improved over the original one. I'll be talking to them about it in detail on Saturday but until them it is simply what I have read on the website.

As for my Tam being ready first,it is because although I only dropped the car off lastweek I "booked" the first available FFF engine back in August or September I think. I was originally destined to have one of their rebuilt engines that preceded the FFF engine, but back in August when my car was due to be done Martin and Colin told me about the FFF development and I agreed to be the first to buy it after Pascal. So since then they have been nursing my engine as much as possible until the engine was actually ready. So since then, Pascal was due to ne the first and I the second. However, as the super charger fitment is not ready yet I think that Pascal has dropped down the list to no 3 leaving me at number 1

I hope that yours is ready soon Sebastien.

I was at RG a few months ago, when Colin and Martin told me about the FFF engine too, and decided on the spot to go for teh SC conversion. Reason mine won't be ready, even though it's there since May 2007 (sorry Sebastien, December until March, that's not long a wait, is it...), is indeed the supercharger conversion.

And from what I understood, I'll probably have the new ECU in there, but I'll have to confirm with Martin or Colin on Saturday. Will be arriving there between 3-4 PM, due to circumstances, I'll only be able to leave here around 11-ish CET...

[supercopa]

PascalBuyens said:

sorry Sebastien, December until March, that's not long a wait, is it...

of course it's not.

[yzf1070]

Pascal, speaking from experience you may need an awful lot more patience to come... depending on what level of compromise you are willing to settle on...? I must continue to relate to lack of knock sensors on the motor,,,,, PLEASE do not compromise in this respect... I learned the hard way. It is essential that you have some method of retarding the ignition at the critical point, especially if you are seeking the magical 600 BHP +. I said similar before "make sure you are happy that they are addressing this issue". I do not know RG(but I like what I read they are doing, very much) but I urge you for your pockets sake Please make sure they do address the issue of pinking with a controlled manner.

G

[willtvr]

T40ORA said:

I guess that they really need this box of tricks for the supercharged engines but I'm almost willing my ECU to go pop so I can have it in addition to the FFF engine!

Just think Lee, if you wished your transmission to go pop you could get that C/R gearbox & 3.91 diff!

Edited by willtvr on Wednesday 25th February 21:22

[T40ORA]

willtvr said:

T40ORA said:

I guess that they really need this box of tricks for the supercharged engines but I'm almost willing my ECU to go pop so I can have it in addition to the FFF engine!

Just think Lee, if you wished your transmission to go pop you could get that C/R gearbox & 3.91 diff!

Edited by willtvr on Wednesday 25th February 21:22

Ah. And then there would be the second divorce of my short life....

[PascalBuyens]

T40ORA said:

willtvr said:

T40ORA said:

I guess that they really need this box of tricks for the supercharged engines but I'm almost willing my ECU to go pop so I can have it in addition to the FFF engine!

Just think Lee, if you wished your transmission to go pop you could get that C/R gearbox & 3.91 diff!

Edited by willtvr on Wednesday 25th February 21:22

Ah. And then there would be the second divorce of my short life....

Short??? An old git like you, calling his life "short"????? Hmmmm....

[T40ORA]

PascalBuyens said:

T40ORA said:

willtvr said:

T40ORA said:

I guess that they really need this box of tricks for the supercharged engines but I'm almost willing my ECU to go pop so I can have it in addition to the FFF engine!

Just think Lee, if you wished your transmission to go pop you could get that C/R gearbox & 3.91 diff!

Edited by willtvr on Wednesday 25th February 21:22

Ah. And then there would be the second divorce of my short life....

Short??? An old git like you, calling his life "short"????? Hmmmm....

You really are trying to indear yourself

[Luca Brazzi]

Hi All, just thought I'd write up my views on the new ECU. I've had the car for a few days now, and driven in a variety of conditions, traffic, and varying degrees of heavy and light-footedness.

One word summary: INCREDIBLE.

A longer summary...
Comparing it to my Tuscan Mk 1 on a standard ECU, the difference is staggering. Its possible to completely forget that its a sensitive engine that doesn't enjoy extreme high or low temps. Mine is jumpy and stuttery at those extremes of the temperature scale...the Omex one is just smooth and effortless...just like a regular eurobox engine lol. There is no having to be sensitive on the throttle at any temperature or revs, which is great. With mine, I need to give it a few extra revs before releasing the clutch pedal to ensure a smooth pull away in traffic.

And the smoothness of the pickup from ridiculously low revs is remarkable....it really does make it feel like a different engine. When I next fill it up, I'll be able to make some accurate calculations on fuel economy, and which I'll compare to my engine. Driving styles have included heavy stop start traffic, 60mph motorway traffic, and clear roads where some fun can be had.

Will update with mpg very soon.

As Clint Eastwood said while playing Mitchell Gant in Firefox after he opened the throttles to outrun 2 surface to air missiles...."Boy is this a machine". Transformed the drivability of the engine.

- Steve

[SteveO...]

Luca Brazzi said:

One word summary: INCREDIBLE.

Steve, Did you go for a custom map with this, or RG's generic map?

[Luca Brazzi]

You may have misunderstood me, I'm driving Racing Green's Omex demonstrator Tuscan. Its a Tuscan 2 convertible, using a standard 4.0l TVR engine, but with the Omex ECU, which has been fully mapped for the 4 litre unit. Having spoken to them, this is going to be their generic map for standard 4.0 litre engines and they are working on the generic maps for the 3.6 and 4.0 S variants now.

As soon as I have the funds, its going on mine

- Steve