Removing and refitting speed 6?
Discussion
Hi all,
I have news that my head gasket is starting fail again(slight loss of water and gasses found in the water) after having the copper gasket fitted which I was told is a lot stronger.
However it seems that the engine has to come out again to see what the problem is, new gasket etc. I have been quoted no more than 1.5k, is this reasonable? I know that a lot of this cost will be labor and was just wandering if I could do the work myself(mainly the removing/refitting) and how difficult it is??? I would normally just let the garage get on with it but my TVR pot is getting smaller these days.
Any thoughts/advice would be greatly appreciated!
I have news that my head gasket is starting fail again(slight loss of water and gasses found in the water) after having the copper gasket fitted which I was told is a lot stronger.
However it seems that the engine has to come out again to see what the problem is, new gasket etc. I have been quoted no more than 1.5k, is this reasonable? I know that a lot of this cost will be labor and was just wandering if I could do the work myself(mainly the removing/refitting) and how difficult it is??? I would normally just let the garage get on with it but my TVR pot is getting smaller these days.
Any thoughts/advice would be greatly appreciated!
Copper gasket you say, the only goons fitting a copper gasket that I know of were Autocrap. They fitted one to mine and the head stud washers turned out to be the soft type so you may have the same issue.
Generally speaking the cost of the engine out and back in is a fair wedge of the final labour overall bill as it is very labour intensive, my guess is about 70% of the overall labour cost, plus add on the government theft tax too.
If you have the equipment and skill sets to remove it and replace it yourself then go for it. However for piece of mind I would let one of the engine guru's such as STR8-Six or TVR Power do the repair work to the engine, discuss this with them or anyone else of your choice first of course. No disrespect intended but my line of thought is that if you were capable of doing the engine repair work alone you would not have been asking if the engine is easy to take out. Plus you have peace of mind the cams have been timed properly and they will also be able to cast an experienced eye over the rest of the head and advise of any necessary essential work or hopefully just give it a sound bill of health..... makes sense for peace of mind.
Quite a few guys on here have already done it. And you can get the engine out from the top or from underneath. The latter is easier if you can raise the car high enough and can safely support the weight of the engine and gearbox and lower it safely.... DO NOT risk it with a trolly jack, the engine weight is centred on the angle of its lie in the engine bay and it is ferkin heavy. Otherwise taking it out through the bonnet access you will need an engine hoist/crane and approx 2 feet ground clearance for the gearbox(you need to drop the back of the gearbox real low and raise the front of the engine real high to clear the front of the car and the rear of the cam cover under the front bulkhead (taking off the fuel rail in situ helps). I used a set of full car length ramps and an engine crane. Check, double check and triple check that you have disconnected all cables and pipes etc... before you pull the engine. My effort took about 8 hours start to finish to get it out and about 12 hours to get it back in, hassle lining up the new engine mounts, holes were slightly off, took an hour to work this out.
Good luck and please let us know how you get on
Generally speaking the cost of the engine out and back in is a fair wedge of the final labour overall bill as it is very labour intensive, my guess is about 70% of the overall labour cost, plus add on the government theft tax too.
If you have the equipment and skill sets to remove it and replace it yourself then go for it. However for piece of mind I would let one of the engine guru's such as STR8-Six or TVR Power do the repair work to the engine, discuss this with them or anyone else of your choice first of course. No disrespect intended but my line of thought is that if you were capable of doing the engine repair work alone you would not have been asking if the engine is easy to take out. Plus you have peace of mind the cams have been timed properly and they will also be able to cast an experienced eye over the rest of the head and advise of any necessary essential work or hopefully just give it a sound bill of health..... makes sense for peace of mind.
Quite a few guys on here have already done it. And you can get the engine out from the top or from underneath. The latter is easier if you can raise the car high enough and can safely support the weight of the engine and gearbox and lower it safely.... DO NOT risk it with a trolly jack, the engine weight is centred on the angle of its lie in the engine bay and it is ferkin heavy. Otherwise taking it out through the bonnet access you will need an engine hoist/crane and approx 2 feet ground clearance for the gearbox(you need to drop the back of the gearbox real low and raise the front of the engine real high to clear the front of the car and the rear of the cam cover under the front bulkhead (taking off the fuel rail in situ helps). I used a set of full car length ramps and an engine crane. Check, double check and triple check that you have disconnected all cables and pipes etc... before you pull the engine. My effort took about 8 hours start to finish to get it out and about 12 hours to get it back in, hassle lining up the new engine mounts, holes were slightly off, took an hour to work this out.
Good luck and please let us know how you get on
As Yzf1070 said above. Depends how good you are with a spanner really? But if I can do it then anyone can!! I reckon its at least an 8hr job....possibly more if you haven't done it all before. So that seems about the right price for a head gasket replacement and refitting.
I raised the front of the car and then used a high lift crane to take the engine and gearbox out over the front of the car, its tricky and you will definitely need a couple of mates to help. I tried using a block and tackle from an RSJ to lower the engine on to a low profile trolley and then slide it out but I couldn't safely get the car high enough to clear it.
Of course if you wanted to save labour costs you could just remove the engine yourself take it to Racing Green, TVR power or such like to get the work done and then put the engine back yourself! That would probably save you about a grand. Make sure you take lots of photo's before you start pulling things apart too!!!
I raised the front of the car and then used a high lift crane to take the engine and gearbox out over the front of the car, its tricky and you will definitely need a couple of mates to help. I tried using a block and tackle from an RSJ to lower the engine on to a low profile trolley and then slide it out but I couldn't safely get the car high enough to clear it.
Of course if you wanted to save labour costs you could just remove the engine yourself take it to Racing Green, TVR power or such like to get the work done and then put the engine back yourself! That would probably save you about a grand. Make sure you take lots of photo's before you start pulling things apart too!!!
Thanks for the advise so far guys it all seems pretty sound. As you correctly realised I havn't got experienced taking out this engine before but a couple of lads are going to help me(for quite a few beers!) who have taken out various engines before including turbo engines. They seem rather confident that between us we can do it and I that just because its a big lump that doesn't necessarily make it a complicated one.
I take your point about someone looking over the engine who knows a lot more about them. My plan would be to take the engine out, take it to Dulfords or someone and get them to do the work and cast there eye over it.
You are right about Autocrap doing the work and could well be right about the soft bolts as the car is still running, its just losing water sometimes and struggling to keep its water temp down when the oil gets hot. Oh and when the oil is above 85 its pinks.
Thanks for the advise so far, I would appreciate anymore advise and thoughts on how stupid or clever I'm being!
I take your point about someone looking over the engine who knows a lot more about them. My plan would be to take the engine out, take it to Dulfords or someone and get them to do the work and cast there eye over it.
You are right about Autocrap doing the work and could well be right about the soft bolts as the car is still running, its just losing water sometimes and struggling to keep its water temp down when the oil gets hot. Oh and when the oil is above 85 its pinks.
Thanks for the advise so far, I would appreciate anymore advise and thoughts on how stupid or clever I'm being!
Engine out checks;
Applies to Sag
This can be done using 750mm axle stands (you need 700mm clear under the chassis to drop the engine and gearbox down. Lift the front then the back at the strengthening plate using a quality trolley jack.
Open the boot and a doors first, and then disconnect battery.
Remove air box, drain cooling system and remove hoses, disconnect engine wiring looms, the oil sump tank sensor wiring, the lambda sensor wiring and the cooler to block hose.
De pressurise and disconnect the air-con, fuel supply and return lines.
Disconnect and remove the oil transducer, engine earth and starter motor positive supply.
Lift the car and remove the strengthening plates, front anti-roll bar, diffuser and exhaust, mark the propshaft position, drain the gearbox oil and remove the propshaft. Fit blank plug to gearbox.
Disconnect the HP oil pump and scavenge pump hoses and blank off with suitable plugs. Remove the water pump return to block pipe.
Loosen the gear box mounts, its remote and engine mounts, disconnecting the clutch hose.
Protect the chassis tubes.
With an engine crane and long sling support the engine weight and remove the engine mount brackets (leaving the rubber mounts in place) and gearbox mounts. Lower with the crane and dropping the engine onto a trolley or skid, through the bottom of the chassis whilst rotating for clearance.
Good luck
G
Applies to Sag
This can be done using 750mm axle stands (you need 700mm clear under the chassis to drop the engine and gearbox down. Lift the front then the back at the strengthening plate using a quality trolley jack.
Open the boot and a doors first, and then disconnect battery.
Remove air box, drain cooling system and remove hoses, disconnect engine wiring looms, the oil sump tank sensor wiring, the lambda sensor wiring and the cooler to block hose.
De pressurise and disconnect the air-con, fuel supply and return lines.
Disconnect and remove the oil transducer, engine earth and starter motor positive supply.
Lift the car and remove the strengthening plates, front anti-roll bar, diffuser and exhaust, mark the propshaft position, drain the gearbox oil and remove the propshaft. Fit blank plug to gearbox.
Disconnect the HP oil pump and scavenge pump hoses and blank off with suitable plugs. Remove the water pump return to block pipe.
Loosen the gear box mounts, its remote and engine mounts, disconnecting the clutch hose.
Protect the chassis tubes.
With an engine crane and long sling support the engine weight and remove the engine mount brackets (leaving the rubber mounts in place) and gearbox mounts. Lower with the crane and dropping the engine onto a trolley or skid, through the bottom of the chassis whilst rotating for clearance.
Good luck
G
Speaking as someone who's taken a lot of SP6 engines out 
I can safely say there's nothing difficult about the operation at all .. most of your time will be taken up quite literally taking your time .. approach in a methodical stress-free and relaxed manner and you will have no problems.
The engine comes out of our racecar in in just over an hour (including taking out my ridiculously fiddly exhaust system) and goes back in, up and running in about 3hours (we have it down to a fine art .. thankfully the next time it comes out will be the last, thank God!) .. Obviously your first time will take a bit longer, but it's not hard at all.
The wise heads have quite rightly suggested giving it over to your appointed engine builder though, that way you know the job is done start to finish by one team, then you know who to praise when the job is a success, likewise if you have any issues there's no arguments either
Good luck
I can safely say there's nothing difficult about the operation at all .. most of your time will be taken up quite literally taking your time .. approach in a methodical stress-free and relaxed manner and you will have no problems. The engine comes out of our racecar in in just over an hour (including taking out my ridiculously fiddly exhaust system) and goes back in, up and running in about 3hours (we have it down to a fine art .. thankfully the next time it comes out will be the last, thank God!) .. Obviously your first time will take a bit longer, but it's not hard at all.
The wise heads have quite rightly suggested giving it over to your appointed engine builder though, that way you know the job is done start to finish by one team, then you know who to praise when the job is a success, likewise if you have any issues there's no arguments either
Good luck
Jediworrier said:
FrancoTam said:
Any thoughts/advice would be greatly appreciated!
If you don't have the equipment/ facilities to remove the engine and box why not take the head off with the engine in situ? Or lets just say it very very unlikely because you can;t get the bottom pulley of the engine to enable you to remove the front cover.
ian_r said:
Just out of intersted, why does the bottom pulley not come off? is it not just bolted on then on a keyway / woodruff?
The crank nose sticks out a long way and the damper(pulley) fits over and held by a 180mm long bolt, but taking off the pulley and front cover does not give many advantages IMO vs taking the engine out.G
Definitely worth getting the 'Pros' to do the gasket, but tell them it is suspect gasket, because although it sounds like your problem, it may not be.
Mine had a hairline crack in the block apparently, which showed syptoms of gasket. If I had asked for the gasket to be changed I would have had no comeback.
Good luck anyway. If my garage was not taken up by another poorly specimen, I would have had mine in bits by now
Mine had a hairline crack in the block apparently, which showed syptoms of gasket. If I had asked for the gasket to be changed I would have had no comeback.
Good luck anyway. If my garage was not taken up by another poorly specimen, I would have had mine in bits by now
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