Oil system question

Oil system question

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Discussion

Chequred Demon

Original Poster:

508 posts

200 months

Sunday 7th September 2008
quotequote all
We had a bit of a discussion on the Tuscan forum about oil level checking and it appears the non-technical amongst us do not appreciate the configuration of the oiling system of the dry sump Speed 6 engine, so I thought I would ask the good and the great on this forum.

If anyone can help with a basic description of the oil system and resevoirs etc, then that would be of great help? We were simply trying to discover whether it was possible to check the oil level accurately when cold instead of when hot and got ourselves in a bit of a muddle.

VARLEYHYD

2,244 posts

213 months

Sunday 7th September 2008
quotequote all
In a dry sump, extra oil is stored the tank outside the engine rather than in the sump.

There are two oil pumps in a SP6 dry sump, the scavenge pump pulls oil from the engine sump and sends it to the tank, and the HP Oil pump takes oil from the tank to lubricate the engine.

The minimum amount of oil possible remains in the engine, reducing oil drag on the crankshaft etc.

A dry sump does not need to have an oil sump big enough to hold all the oil under the engine, so the engine can be placed lower in the car.

Once you switch the engine off the oil from the full dry sump tank bleeds back into the engine (dependant on ambient temp & oil viscosity)through the clearances in the HP Oil pump to find its own level.

If you measure oil level when cold its dependant on how long you leave it, the oil type etc

IMO 'hot switch off level check' for most consistent method

Gsmile

Chequred Demon

Original Poster:

508 posts

200 months

Monday 8th September 2008
quotequote all
Thanks VarleyHD.

Would I be right in thinking therefore that if you left the engine to cool overnight and checked the level the next morning that presuming there were no oil leaks the level would be accurate? I have tried this with my Tuscan MK1 4.0L and I get very consistent "cold" oil level readings.

However when I try using the "hot" method I get very varied readings, even though I use the same procedure of not switching off the engine until I have opened the small bonnet and running round to check the level as soon a I can.

Would the length of time the engine is at idle affect the level in the oil tank?

VARLEYHYD

2,244 posts

213 months

Monday 8th September 2008
quotequote all
Chequred Demon said:
Would I be right in thinking therefore that if you left the engine to cool overnight and checked the level the next morning that presuming there were no oil leaks the level would be accurate?
I think it would be consistent on that basis, but it will be individual to every car dependant on oil viscosity wear in pump rotor etc, and I guess you probably will not see the level on the dipstick.

Chequred Demon said:
Would the length of time the engine is at idle affect the level in the oil tank?
Yes, but again individual to every car dependant of rotor wear, idle rpm, viscosity etc.

The 'best yard stick' is when next doing an oil change (a full one, inc siphon the engine sump) fill with 9 litres, and check level before starting.


G

Chequred Demon

Original Poster:

508 posts

200 months

Monday 8th September 2008
quotequote all
Thanks VarleyHD

That is most helpful.

FYI Some of us do have quite a bit of oil on the dipstick when cold. 20mm seems about the norm, though mine is about half way up since the last oil change by Sebring, which means when measured hot it is at the top of the threads.

Buffoon

879 posts

210 months

Monday 8th September 2008
quotequote all
I'd concur with the 20mm cold level. I also wonder if this would be the better way of checking. Mine never used to drain back much at all, but recently you can hear it gugle backwards after switch off so you have to be quick to check it by traditional method.

Needles to say level ground is important.

Concensus is that slight overfill is better than underfill

Peppe

376 posts

227 months

Monday 8th September 2008
quotequote all
VARLEYHYD said:
Chequred Demon said:
The 'best yard stick' is when next doing an oil change (a full one, inc siphon the engine sump) fill with 9 litres, and check level before starting.
Is this correct that it should be 9 litres of oil in the system. When i drained mine completetly I got 8 litres out of the engine sump and the dry sump.
My handbook say 6 litres in the system which never has worked to fill the system up to the mark on the dipstick.

On my early Cerbera SP6 there is only one mark on the dipstick which I have been using as the top level, and I hope the low level is when you have some oil on the lower end of the dipstick.

VARLEYHYD

2,244 posts

213 months

Monday 8th September 2008
quotequote all
Peppe said:
VARLEYHYD said:
The 'best yard stick' is when next doing an oil change (a full one, inc siphon the engine sump) fill with 9 litres, and check level before starting.
Is this correct that it should be 9 litres of oil in the system. When i drained mine completetly I got 8 litres out of the engine sump and the dry sump.
Mine (Sagaris)was 9 litre inc the cooler and all the hoses etc

Peppe said:
My handbook say 6 litres in the system which never has worked to fill the system up to the mark on the dipstick.
True but thats only the dry sump tank volume, easy cop out to change 2/3rds of the oil only! not the full change

G

Peppe

376 posts

227 months

Monday 8th September 2008
quotequote all
OK !

That explains why I have had to top up the oil after putting 7.5 litres in when I changed the oil. I have all together put in about 8.5 litres now.
I have used a bigger oil filter on my car so it probably needs a little bit more than 9 litres.
The oil filter I have used is the same size as used on a Ford 7.5 litre marine engine. The reason I wanted a bigger filter is that I think a engine of the size of a SP6 should have a bigger filter than the original one. The filter I use is recommended to me by FRAM filters when I asked them if it was possible to use a bigger filter. What you need to check is that the filter has the same internal construction with reverse valve etc. as the original, so I gave the number on the original to FRAM and they answered me with a number on a bigger filter with the same internal construction.

Varlehyd, do you know how much oil it is in the oil cooler ?

Tonymg

768 posts

203 months

Monday 8th September 2008
quotequote all
Dear Peppe

Can you tell us what type of oil fillter you got Ref: the numbers on the side and where to get it from

thanks

Tony...

Peppe

376 posts

227 months

Tuesday 9th September 2008
quotequote all
Sorry !

Should have put it in the previous reply

Here is the number on the FRAM filter I was recommended, FRAM PH2821A
I can´t see why the factory did choose a filter like this from the beginning, anyone that have an idea?

Peter

Edited by Peppe on Tuesday 9th September 06:21

blackiepaul

1,973 posts

200 months

Thursday 25th September 2008
quotequote all
are you meant to check the oil with the dipstick screwed totally in or not?

Stupid question from a stupid bloke

KillerJim

969 posts

209 months

Thursday 25th September 2008
quotequote all
blackiepaul said:
are you meant to check the oil with the dipstick screwed totally in or not?

Stupid question from a stupid bloke
I don`t screw it in, that way there should be a little bit extra.. I think most people don`t smile

J

blackiepaul

1,973 posts

200 months

Friday 26th September 2008
quotequote all
thanks Jim

Buffoon

879 posts

210 months

Friday 26th September 2008
quotequote all
Hardly unanimous decision that onehehe

Screw mine in, as there can be no ambiguity. But all said and done the science is not exact and there is a large margin for error, but always err on the side of caution and slightly overfill not underfill.