Al Melling ...

[earlyriser]

... doesn't rate the (TVR) sp6 much does he? See this month's Sprint.

[Chrissy G]

earlyriser said:

... doesn't rate the (TVR) sp6 much does he? See this month's Sprint.

Is somebody able to paste his comments as I don't get sprint?

[macdeb]

earlyriser said:

... doesn't rate the (TVR) sp6 much does he? See this month's Sprint.

Maybe because Wheeler had it away on the cheap [don't think Melling got paid] and phucked it completely by building down to a cost, changing design and components. Can totally sympathise with Melling. Also wish he had been succesfull in purchase of TVR.

ootnote]Edited by macdeb on Saturday 2nd June 20:25[/footnote]

Edited by macdeb on Saturday 2nd June 20:31

Edited by macdeb on Sunday 3rd June 10:21

[JR]

macdeb said:

earlyriser said:

... doesn't rate the (TVR) sp6 much does he? See this month's Sprint.

Maybe because Wheeler had it away on the cheap [don't think Melling got paid] and phucked it completely by building down to a cost, changing design and components. Can totally sympathise with Melling. Also wish he had been succesfull in purchase of TVR.

Doesn't sound like that's Al Melling.

[cramorra]

More interesting so that he was asked by PW to create an engine which is cheaper than the Rover one @ around GBP 4000.-
Even with 5 % inflation over 10 years that engine would cost around 4200 pound today (and deliver 401 bhp???)
Al could you please build it- if this is true?????
It seems a great alternative to a 6 grand rebuild (don´t understand why these are so expensive- especially craft ones) when this engine would be so cheap with all the goodies (top spec valve gear, billet crank)???
Or did I get the article wrong (or did Al forget a 1 in front of his figures???)

[ATG]

5% inflation for 10 years raise the price by 63%

[cramorra]

ATG said:

5% inflation for 10 years raise the price by 63%

... Caught me out on my maths (still trying to figutre this out- obviously it has to do with percentage on everything...)
But as Inflation never was close to 5% evern 50% increase and say 6500.- pounds would be in the area of current rbuild quotations- correct???
Anybody interested in a new, more powerful and reliable engine for the same price???
I guess yes

[S6 SFX]

cramorra said:

(don´t understand why these are so expensive- especially craft ones)

Because you get what you pay for!

Craft have invested in an engineering solution , not just replacing worn parts with other parts that will go the same way because the issues of oil starvation and stresses aren't being taken into account.

It's not a rebuild, it's virtually a new engine. If you want to paper over the cracks then go elsewhere.

There is no cheap fix.

Unless maybe you buy the parts that Craft have made/sourced and save the labour costs by doing it yourself - even then quality engineering ain't cheap.

Do you have the same problem in other areas of your life understanding why some things cost more than others?

In your job, why don't you continue to use laughing gas?

Because you know there's a better anaesthetic out there now maybe?

Edited by S6 SFX on Monday 4th June 10:11

[cramorra]

Did NOT want to upset anybody- I was just quoting Melling's prices give to TVR (acc to sprint where he was talking about engines made of good quality parts
I understand fully that if somebody redesigns something he wants to earn on intelectual property and the work for the rebuild need is time and should be paid for as well- totally OK
I just do not understand if Melling claims to have delivered a proper engine for a (comparably) low price made from good quality components why rebuild something for a higher price then exchange it????

Laughing gas is still fancied by a lot of my colleguaes compares badly here as it actually makes anaesthetics dearer (seperate piping system needed, uprated air conditioning, removal of pregnant staff from theatres, stockkeeping, service contracts) without adding anything which other
anaesthetics cannot do- a mere supplement- you are guessing I am not using it
but as said no offence neither to you nor to the guys @ Autocraft (hope I won´t need them too soon though- knock on wood) just the (hypothetical) question
why to rebuild something for a lot of money if you could exchange it for something better (again hypothetical) at a lower price- this is what Melling said (IMO)

Edited by cramorra on Monday 4th June 10:56

[JR]

cramorra said:

question:why to rebuild something for a lot of money if you could exchange it for something better (again hypothetical) at a lower price- this is what Melling said (IMO)

Because you don't have a choice.

Cast your mind back five years. People were paying up to £8K to TVR dealers for a rebuild via the factory - not far off the same cost as a new engine.

If someone wants to set up building AJP V8s/S6s now then the price of a new engine maybe competitive but could they sell 500 to 1,000 units a year to make it economical?

The cost to lift out of a car, strip down and rebuild an individual engine is always going to be relatively high compared to the initial manufacturing cost.

If you want to read more see the S6 forum for the last two years.

[S6 SFX]

cramorra said:

Did NOT want to upset anybody

Did not mean to get annoyed. The whole situation is so frustrating though.
Why does Melling's Hellcat cost so much more than a TVR? Because he knows it will be low volume and as such few economies of scale - as the above poster alluded to.

[Mr Freefall]

cramorra said:

ATG said:

5% inflation for 10 years raise the price by 63%

... Caught me out on my maths (still trying to figutre this out- obviously it has to do with percentage on everything...)

1.05 inflation rate

YR, base price
0-= 4,100
1- = 4,305
2- = 4,520
3- = 4,746
4- = 4,984
5- = 5,233
6- = 5,494
7- = 5,769
8- = 6,058
9- = 6,360
10- = 6,678

YR 10 MINUS YR 0= 2,578
%= 62.9%

[Graham_Amika]

Mr Freefall said:

cramorra said:

ATG said:

5% inflation for 10 years raise the price by 63%

... Caught me out on my maths (still trying to figutre this out- obviously it has to do with percentage on everything...)

1.05 inflation rate

YR, base price
0-= 4,100
1- = 4,305
2- = 4,520
3- = 4,746
4- = 4,984
5- = 5,233
6- = 5,494
7- = 5,769
8- = 6,058
9- = 6,360
10- = 6,678

YR 10 MINUS YR 0= 2,578
%= 62.9%

Not sure how you arrived at 4,100 as 5% on 4,000 is £200.. but 63% is correct.

[Mr Freefall]

Graham_Amika said:

Mr Freefall said:

cramorra said:

ATG said:

5% inflation for 10 years raise the price by 63%

... Caught me out on my maths (still trying to figutre this out- obviously it has to do with percentage on everything...)

1.05 inflation rate

YR, base price
0-= 4,100
1- = 4,305
2- = 4,520
3- = 4,746
4- = 4,984
5- = 5,233
6- = 5,494
7- = 5,769
8- = 6,058
9- = 6,360
10- = 6,678

YR 10 MINUS YR 0= 2,578
%= 62.9%

Not sure how you arrived at 4,100 as 5% on 4,000 is £200.. but 63% is correct.

£4100 is base year 0 so these calcs are on £4100 as the base cost. I did this to show that £100 difference in the base value make no difference in the % increase on '5% to the power of 10'

Mr F (ACMA)

[Graham_Amika]

Mr Freefall said:

Graham_Amika said:

Mr Freefall said:

cramorra said:

ATG said:

5% inflation for 10 years raise the price by 63%

... Caught me out on my maths (still trying to figutre this out- obviously it has to do with percentage on everything...)

1.05 inflation rate

YR, base price
0-= 4,100
1- = 4,305
2- = 4,520
3- = 4,746
4- = 4,984
5- = 5,233
6- = 5,494
7- = 5,769
8- = 6,058
9- = 6,360
10- = 6,678

YR 10 MINUS YR 0= 2,578
%= 62.9%

Not sure how you arrived at 4,100 as 5% on 4,000 is £200.. but 63% is correct.

£4100 is base year 0 so these calcs are on £4100 as the base cost. I did this to show that £100 difference in the base value make no difference in the % increase on '5% to the power of 10'

Mr F (ACMA)

I agree the percentage is the same regardless of the amount of cash involved on day zero - but I wouldn't have shown it the way you did, even if you are Mr qualified! Still who cares having just read Mr Mellings interview notes it was all rather drepressing even taking into consideration hidden agenda's. I say good luck to Melling with the Gin. I live in Leeds so I'm going to find out where his factory is and ask if I can have a nosey round. Your never know your luck!

[S5TVR]

Mr Freefall said:

Mr F (ACMA)

ACMA - not worth the paper it's written on. We have a few spare in the gents if anybody would like one !.

S5TVR (FCCA)

[rev-erend]

earlyriser said:

... doesn't rate the (TVR) sp6 much does he? See this month's Sprint.

Well - he does.. it's just that he likes the version he designed and not what TVR ended upo with.

Proof of the pudding as they say will be in the TVR Craft versions - as they are attempting, with Mellings help - turn the s6 back to it's original design.

[dvs_dave]

Does anybody know which major Japanese manufacturers' engines Melling is referring to when he talks about the valvegear design they share with the original Melling Speed 6?

Would be very interesting to know how reliable these engines have proved to be over time.

Does anybody know anything about the valvegear design on the Nissan Skyline and/or Toyota/Lexus straight 6 enigines? These spring to mind as being the closest match to the Speed 6 in terms of design.

[yzf1070]

if i recall correctly it is the suzuki gsxr oil cooled bike engine

[rev-erend]

yzf1070 said:

if i recall correctly it is the suzuki gsxr oil cooled bike engine

Agreed - that's what he said at the talk
and the Suzuki engine has been very reliable.

Edited by rev-erend on Wednesday 6th June 10:58