When to get a rebuild?
Discussion
Is it worth getting an S6 engine rebuilt before it goes bang?
Mine is strong (24k) and runs very smoothly and quietly, strong oil pressure, 700rpm idle and it has the characteristic sewing machine whirr from the top end that you can just about hear when the roof is off. No tapping or bag of spanners, even when cold.
Only thing is it uses a reasonable amount of Mobil's finest, approx 1.5 litres per 500 miles. It gives a little puff of blue smoke on a hot re-start and the exhausts are a little sooty. I use it mostly on longish runs, 50 miles minimum.
I reckon it's only got worn valve guides at the moment but what bothers me is how quickly is it likely to deteriorate?
Should I get it rebuilt now ahead of the inevitable (and get a raceproved clutch upgrade whilst I'm there) or wait until it finally lets go and eats itself and get it done then? I aim to keep the car.
Cheers
Mine is strong (24k) and runs very smoothly and quietly, strong oil pressure, 700rpm idle and it has the characteristic sewing machine whirr from the top end that you can just about hear when the roof is off. No tapping or bag of spanners, even when cold.
Only thing is it uses a reasonable amount of Mobil's finest, approx 1.5 litres per 500 miles. It gives a little puff of blue smoke on a hot re-start and the exhausts are a little sooty. I use it mostly on longish runs, 50 miles minimum.
I reckon it's only got worn valve guides at the moment but what bothers me is how quickly is it likely to deteriorate?
Should I get it rebuilt now ahead of the inevitable (and get a raceproved clutch upgrade whilst I'm there) or wait until it finally lets go and eats itself and get it done then? I aim to keep the car.
Cheers
The actual mileage is 23.5k and the 24k service was done at 21k (all clear) as the time period expired before the actual mileage did. Next service theoretically is not due until 27k. It will be done before that as the 12 month time period will expire around about 24-24k.
I'm using Mobil 1 0-40W fully synthetic as per TVR's recommendations. I could up the oil viscosity to reduce the oil consumption, but I always like to think that thinner oil does a better job of getting into all the nooks and crannies of the engine, especially the top end where the lubrication system spreads oil around rather sparingly at best.
I'm using Mobil 1 0-40W fully synthetic as per TVR's recommendations. I could up the oil viscosity to reduce the oil consumption, but I always like to think that thinner oil does a better job of getting into all the nooks and crannies of the engine, especially the top end where the lubrication system spreads oil around rather sparingly at best.
dvs_dave said:
The actual mileage is 23.5k and the 24k service was done at 21k (all clear) as the time period expired before the actual mileage did. Next service theoretically is not due until 27k. It will be done before that as the 12 month time period will expire around about 24-24k.
I'm using Mobil 1 0-40W fully synthetic as per TVR's recommendations. I could up the oil viscosity to reduce the oil consumption, but I always like to think that thinner oil does a better job of getting into all the nooks and crannies of the engine, especially the top end where the lubrication system spreads oil around rather sparingly at best.
I'm using Mobil 1 0-40W fully synthetic as per TVR's recommendations. I could up the oil viscosity to reduce the oil consumption, but I always like to think that thinner oil does a better job of getting into all the nooks and crannies of the engine, especially the top end where the lubrication system spreads oil around rather sparingly at best.
0-40 is like pee. With a cold engine and the associated large clearances it will dissapear out of the exhaust. Try an interim oil change before the next service to 15-40 or 50 (dont change the filter). If it stops the oil consumption, then its probably an indicator that the engine is fine. The heavier oil is by no means a bodge with many dealers using a 15-40 or 50 as a regular oil.
Edited by Daftlad on Sunday 5th November 10:00
Agree with Daftlad, the same symptoms as mine one ltr per 200 miles approx, stretched valves on number 6 cylinder, i changed to 15-50 and got better oil consumption, i ran mine for 4 months and 3000 miles before getting it sorted, the car was running fine apart from the fact that there was no valve adjustment on no 6 and slightly heavy oil consumption as i have said, change the oil and if it`s still running fine carry on using for as long as possible, unless you have the odd £7k knocking around 
gazzab said:
Does the fact that the engine is on its way spoil your enjoyment?
If so then get it rebuilt.
The longer you weight then the more likely it is that the engine damage might get worse?
If so then get it rebuilt.
The longer you weight then the more likely it is that the engine damage might get worse?
Well it never with mine, the factory advised to check the oil before and after every trip, and reckoned with the symptoms that nothing further would go wrong, there was a bit of a back log for rebuilds at the time (3/4 years ago) and only the factory where repairing them, and if any thing a tended to use the rev range more knowing it was on it`s wayout any way
Let's assume that the engine get's to 32K and needs a rebuild. As long as nothing breaks the rebuild cost isn't likely to be any different between 24K and 32K. You get 8K for free or 33% on top of the current engine life.
The rebuild might cost £4k (TVR Power estimate) and I'd get the clutch changed at the same time.
Cheers
John
The rebuild might cost £4k (TVR Power estimate) and I'd get the clutch changed at the same time.
Cheers
John
If you are seriously worried, get the car inspected (£150), then have any stuff put right (variable) and get a warranty (£1400). Result? Peace of mind, and likely to be cheaper than a rebuild.
Plus bear in mind that once oil is hot it reduces in viscosity anyway, but not in lubricating properties - so any oil will get into those "nooks and crannies". I suppose a thicker oil is more likely to stick to valves etc as the engine cools, so there's a bit more lubricant on metal on cold starts.
Plus, don't make the assumption that there is a major fault developing in your engine. Some of the stuff that bounces around on Pistonheads is at best scaremongering, and at worst, complete fairy tale stuff. I take comfort from the fact that when this subject was brought up in a letter to EVO magazine recently, the technical guy replied that he wasn't aware of a serious problem with TVR engines at 30k miles, so the hysteria on PH doesn't necessary represent an accurate view of the S6's overall reputation. Don't forget, PH readers are by no means the majority of TVR owners, and many posts repeat Chinese whispers and rumours often based on a single person's bad experience. One thing tat counts against the S6 is that there are few high mileage engines out there.
Plus bear in mind that once oil is hot it reduces in viscosity anyway, but not in lubricating properties - so any oil will get into those "nooks and crannies". I suppose a thicker oil is more likely to stick to valves etc as the engine cools, so there's a bit more lubricant on metal on cold starts.
Plus, don't make the assumption that there is a major fault developing in your engine. Some of the stuff that bounces around on Pistonheads is at best scaremongering, and at worst, complete fairy tale stuff. I take comfort from the fact that when this subject was brought up in a letter to EVO magazine recently, the technical guy replied that he wasn't aware of a serious problem with TVR engines at 30k miles, so the hysteria on PH doesn't necessary represent an accurate view of the S6's overall reputation. Don't forget, PH readers are by no means the majority of TVR owners, and many posts repeat Chinese whispers and rumours often based on a single person's bad experience. One thing tat counts against the S6 is that there are few high mileage engines out there.
Edited by nubbin on Wednesday 8th November 08:54
Duncan,
I am pleased your experience of ownership has been more enjoyable/fortunate than the likes of mine and a few others I have shared experiences with. I do however disagree with some of what you have said. I have seen inside both mine, a 2003 and 2 other earlier S6 engines, and the engineering was to say the least very amaterish in component and build quaility. The photos I posted on PH earlier in the year are a testiment of truth to this fact. I do concur from a generalised view point with your comment regarding Chinese Whispers, but there is also a lot of genuine and valuable info on PH regarding ownership experiences, both good and bad.
I would therefore urge any new comer/owner considering or into first time S6 ownership to read through the threads and seriously consider and understand what he or she may be getting into. I would further suggest that the later engines (late 2004 on) are better than the previous efforts and I base this on the demise in failure reports and an insite into some of the mods that have been carried out.
I do not agree that warranties provide a sound piece of mind, there have been far too many posts on PH whereby owners have had cause to test the value of a warranty only to find the warranty company try to squirm out of paying up (there is one very such issue on the Tuscan forum right now). I understand that you are referring to the TVR factory backed warranty and one would expect this to be a better performer, but has anyone contacted the warranty company and asked how a current policy is affected by the recent news from the factory and further more where will the parts come from?
I believe there is much more to it than you put forward and I am not posting to open old wounds. I am posting to add a cautionary reality check and that is these engines do have a proven historical reliability issue if used to their potential.
But to answer the authors question, revert to a sensible oil spec as Daftlad suggested and see how the car performs, but if it aint broke then don't try to fix it. Enjoy it until it does break..... And if it doesn't then you will have experienced ownership similar to Duncans and good luck to you.
G
I am pleased your experience of ownership has been more enjoyable/fortunate than the likes of mine and a few others I have shared experiences with. I do however disagree with some of what you have said. I have seen inside both mine, a 2003 and 2 other earlier S6 engines, and the engineering was to say the least very amaterish in component and build quaility. The photos I posted on PH earlier in the year are a testiment of truth to this fact. I do concur from a generalised view point with your comment regarding Chinese Whispers, but there is also a lot of genuine and valuable info on PH regarding ownership experiences, both good and bad.
I would therefore urge any new comer/owner considering or into first time S6 ownership to read through the threads and seriously consider and understand what he or she may be getting into. I would further suggest that the later engines (late 2004 on) are better than the previous efforts and I base this on the demise in failure reports and an insite into some of the mods that have been carried out.
I do not agree that warranties provide a sound piece of mind, there have been far too many posts on PH whereby owners have had cause to test the value of a warranty only to find the warranty company try to squirm out of paying up (there is one very such issue on the Tuscan forum right now). I understand that you are referring to the TVR factory backed warranty and one would expect this to be a better performer, but has anyone contacted the warranty company and asked how a current policy is affected by the recent news from the factory and further more where will the parts come from?
I believe there is much more to it than you put forward and I am not posting to open old wounds. I am posting to add a cautionary reality check and that is these engines do have a proven historical reliability issue if used to their potential.
But to answer the authors question, revert to a sensible oil spec as Daftlad suggested and see how the car performs, but if it aint broke then don't try to fix it. Enjoy it until it does break..... And if it doesn't then you will have experienced ownership similar to Duncans and good luck to you.
G
yzf1070 said:
but has anyone contacted the warranty company and asked how a current policy is affected by the recent news from the factory and further more where will the parts come from?
Graham - Racing Green claimed on my TVR approved warranty last week (after the annoucement) for app £800 of repairs required to my steering rack and other items. The warranty company also phoned me that morning to discuss the nature of the claim and my happiness with RG which supposedly is standard protocol (although I was the first customer this has happened to!). I am hopeful that despite current issues, the warranties will continue to be honoured as TVR as a company remains in existence.
Mustang Baz said:
yzf1070 said:
but has anyone contacted the warranty company and asked how a current policy is affected by the recent news from the factory and further more where will the parts come from?
Graham - Racing Green claimed on my TVR approved warranty last week (after the annoucement) for app £800 of repairs required to my steering rack and other items. The warranty company also phoned me that morning to discuss the nature of the claim and my happiness with RG which supposedly is standard protocol (although I was the first customer this has happened to!). I am hopeful that despite current issues, the warranties will continue to be honoured as TVR as a company remains in existence.
Hi Craig,
Top man, that is indeed excellent news and what I have been hoping to hear about this warranty.
Regards
G
I have been assured by my dealer that the recent anouncement on the relocation of production has no effect on existing warranty's.
Anyone who has bought post 04 should have a degree of confidense.What's my basis for this assertion? I was talking to T350T owner last week while mine was being inspected at the dealer just before a track day and he has done 50k miles on a Red Roses'd Speed Six including several track days all in the past 18 and a bit months. He thought I was slacking at a mere 15K in the same time period.
Anyone who has bought post 04 should have a degree of confidense.What's my basis for this assertion? I was talking to T350T owner last week while mine was being inspected at the dealer just before a track day and he has done 50k miles on a Red Roses'd Speed Six including several track days all in the past 18 and a bit months. He thought I was slacking at a mere 15K in the same time period.
So a change to a 15/40W or 15/50W seems to be the general concensus for the time being. I'll get it done next service which is due next month (think I'm gonna give Automedon a go after hearing nothing but great things about them).
You're right, getting it rebuilt early isn't going to save me any cash longterm, that's a fact! I thought about getting a warranty but tbh I have my doubts about them regarding engine rebuild cover. If I was going to get a rebuild it would not be to factory specs and would most likely be the Craft/Austec solution. I doubt a warranty would cover a rebuild to non-factory specs?
You're right, getting it rebuilt early isn't going to save me any cash longterm, that's a fact! I thought about getting a warranty but tbh I have my doubts about them regarding engine rebuild cover. If I was going to get a rebuild it would not be to factory specs and would most likely be the Craft/Austec solution. I doubt a warranty would cover a rebuild to non-factory specs?
I'll also go with the oil concensus. Mobil 1 0/40 used to disappear through mine at an alarming rate. For the last 3 years it's been run on Castrol fully synth 15/50 and then more recently TVR Power switched it to semi synth 10/40 (I use magnatech) and it's settled around the 1 litre per 1k miles mark for the last 20k miles or so.
Gassing Station | Speed Six Engine | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff