Water Disappearing!!
Discussion
Sorry to report that my Speed Six is using water like it’s a housing estate in the south of England. Gobbled-up six litre in less than 100 miles!!
The first thought was a holed rad or pipe, but not a drop was to be seen under the car, which led me to think it was something more serious. So I made a quick call to Silverstone Performance and the guys came out right away to check it over. The prognosis was not good however, so they took it back to Bicester to give it a more thorough check. They thought it might be the head gasket, but the car has passed a pressure test, does not have contamination in the coolant, nor any signs of water in the oil, so they are a bit stumped and suggesting it might be even more serious like a craked head or block!!! But if that were the case, then surely it wouldn't have pased the tests. Also, it has signs of water on the backs of the inlet valves, which is very strange. They've called Dom at Power as he rebuilt the engine about 18-20 months ago, but no news yet.
Sadly this is my third rebuld, so was hoping it'd be something minor, but it's not looking promising.
Has anyone had any similar experiences?
The first thought was a holed rad or pipe, but not a drop was to be seen under the car, which led me to think it was something more serious. So I made a quick call to Silverstone Performance and the guys came out right away to check it over. The prognosis was not good however, so they took it back to Bicester to give it a more thorough check. They thought it might be the head gasket, but the car has passed a pressure test, does not have contamination in the coolant, nor any signs of water in the oil, so they are a bit stumped and suggesting it might be even more serious like a craked head or block!!! But if that were the case, then surely it wouldn't have pased the tests. Also, it has signs of water on the backs of the inlet valves, which is very strange. They've called Dom at Power as he rebuilt the engine about 18-20 months ago, but no news yet.
Sadly this is my third rebuld, so was hoping it'd be something minor, but it's not looking promising.
Has anyone had any similar experiences?
Could be nothing. I was losing lots of water a couple of weeks ago but it only escaped when the engine was running (so nothing on the floor of my garage). For me it was simple, make sure the jubilee clips on the hose where you check the water level are on tight (thanks to Phil and co at Racing Green for finding this for me). In my case, with the car cold and the engine not running, the water level is too low to escape. When hot, stream must have been slipping through where the pipe wasn't tight enough.
Hope it's nothing more than that.
Hope it's nothing more than that.
Well it must be going somewhere, and if its not on the floor or in the oil, and thats too much to evaporate, then it must be coming out of the tail pipes. Anyone at Snetterton a few weeks ago knows what that can look like. Hopefully mine is just the head gasket (awaiting factory to do their thing).
It`s nothing simple like a knackered pressure cap? As the coolant heats up a duff cap will blow out the water, and on the move would be unnoticeable, the alloy header get so hot that water evaporates on it so when you stop and look at the header, again it`s unnoticeable? it might be worth spending a fiver on a new cap and trying it?
Just a thought?
Good luck, Tony
Just a thought?
Good luck, Tony
Thanks for the help and advice guys.
I'd have hoped Silverstone Performace would have checked all the hoses for tightness and the cap, but I will pass on your comments, just in case. I know how easy it is to let something simple go undetected.
I've still not heard from Dom, but if the engine needs work, I hope he'll make a contribution.
I'll keep you posted.
I'd have hoped Silverstone Performace would have checked all the hoses for tightness and the cap, but I will pass on your comments, just in case. I know how easy it is to let something simple go undetected.
I've still not heard from Dom, but if the engine needs work, I hope he'll make a contribution.
I'll keep you posted.
I've taken it to Silverstone Performance. I've been very, very happy with the work they've done in the past (they came out to fix a duff coil pack on the drive) and they seem to have a good reputation on this forum, so I've got no reason to doubt they've not done all they can.
I know they've done pressure tests, CO2 in the coolant and a whole host of other things, but nothing is coming up as conclusive, which is why I thought I'd seee if there was anyone who had had similar problems with a Speed Six and had found the cause.
I think all the things that have been suggested are possibilities and when I talk to them tonight I'll make some suggestions (I'll try not to sound like I'm teaching my granny to suck eggs, but with the amount of water it's lossing, it looks like it might be a head gasket, which is a £2K job to fix ouch!!!!
Still hoping Dom will feel generous!!
I know they've done pressure tests, CO2 in the coolant and a whole host of other things, but nothing is coming up as conclusive, which is why I thought I'd seee if there was anyone who had had similar problems with a Speed Six and had found the cause.
I think all the things that have been suggested are possibilities and when I talk to them tonight I'll make some suggestions (I'll try not to sound like I'm teaching my granny to suck eggs, but with the amount of water it's lossing, it looks like it might be a head gasket, which is a £2K job to fix ouch!!!!
Still hoping Dom will feel generous!!
I have a similar prob with my '03 T350. Been back to local dealers twice for bleeding, pressure testing etc.
This time though I can smell the coolant at various times while driving with the engine hot and blower on high. I also can see no obvious leaks, nothing on garage floor etc.
Does sound like 'loose pipe' or dodgy pressure cap as posted above (Ta!)
I have one question though - If the water system is full to the brim and has just been bled, then the pressure in the system shouldn't really increase that much at high temp right? (scratches head - trying to remember school chemistry lessons about expansion of water and partial pressures...)
This time though I can smell the coolant at various times while driving with the engine hot and blower on high. I also can see no obvious leaks, nothing on garage floor etc.
Does sound like 'loose pipe' or dodgy pressure cap as posted above (Ta!)
I have one question though - If the water system is full to the brim and has just been bled, then the pressure in the system shouldn't really increase that much at high temp right? (scratches head - trying to remember school chemistry lessons about expansion of water and partial pressures...)
widjit said:
I have one question though - If the water system is full to the brim and has just been bled, then the pressure in the system shouldn't really increase that much at high temp right? (scratches head - trying to remember school chemistry lessons about expansion of water and partial pressures...)
As it's running around 90-93C when warm, some of the water will turn to steam so yes, the pressure increases and it'll blow the excess through the cap.
Sorry I've not kept you up-to-date with developments, but quite a lot has happened in the past few weeks.
It seems the only way to be sure what the problem is, is to take the head off and that means the engine has to be removed. Now for the dilemma.
As you will appreciate, there is quite a lot of cost involved in getting the engine out and stripping it down to see if it’s the head gasket. Now, if I could be sure that would be the end of it, I’d happily go ahead. However, I’ve been told there’s a remote chance that there could be another problem causing the leak i.e. something wrong with the block. Now if the block needs replacing, I can’t afford to proceed and I’ll be left with a car with its engine out and not enough money to finish the job.
So what do I do?
As I’ve mentioned already, the car is with Silverstone Performance (Champ Cars) at their new venture in Bicester. The guys there have been very helpful and we’ve talked long and hard about what can be done and they’ve bent over backwards to help everyway they can, but the fact remains I don’t have enough money to fix the car if the block needs replacing, so I’ve only one option left and that’s sell it.
Now I’m sure you’re all wondering how I can sell the car with there being an unknown problem with the engine and that’s where SP have been so helpful. So if you want to buy a much cherished Tuscan, with Nitrons, sports exhaust, and 400bhp engine rebuilt 18-20 months ago by TVR Power(ok, so that’s not as much of a selling point as I’d like) and a very interesting deal on getting it fixed then talk to Gary at Champ Cars.
www.champ-cars.com
It seems the only way to be sure what the problem is, is to take the head off and that means the engine has to be removed. Now for the dilemma.
As you will appreciate, there is quite a lot of cost involved in getting the engine out and stripping it down to see if it’s the head gasket. Now, if I could be sure that would be the end of it, I’d happily go ahead. However, I’ve been told there’s a remote chance that there could be another problem causing the leak i.e. something wrong with the block. Now if the block needs replacing, I can’t afford to proceed and I’ll be left with a car with its engine out and not enough money to finish the job.
So what do I do?
As I’ve mentioned already, the car is with Silverstone Performance (Champ Cars) at their new venture in Bicester. The guys there have been very helpful and we’ve talked long and hard about what can be done and they’ve bent over backwards to help everyway they can, but the fact remains I don’t have enough money to fix the car if the block needs replacing, so I’ve only one option left and that’s sell it.
Now I’m sure you’re all wondering how I can sell the car with there being an unknown problem with the engine and that’s where SP have been so helpful. So if you want to buy a much cherished Tuscan, with Nitrons, sports exhaust, and 400bhp engine rebuilt 18-20 months ago by TVR Power(ok, so that’s not as much of a selling point as I’d like) and a very interesting deal on getting it fixed then talk to Gary at Champ Cars.
www.champ-cars.com
Sorry to hear your tail of woe.
The key phrase for me here is this one...
You seem to be taking quite a drastic step for a "remote chance".
If there's a problem with the block, wouldn't that be a manufacturing defect? (Then again, after 3 rebuilds and you would hope that someone would have noticed before...)
The key phrase for me here is this one...
Pist'n Broke said:
there’s a remote chance that there could be another problem causing the leak
You seem to be taking quite a drastic step for a "remote chance".
If there's a problem with the block, wouldn't that be a manufacturing defect? (Then again, after 3 rebuilds and you would hope that someone would have noticed before...)
Sorry to hear about your woes.
Why can't you bung the cost on a credit card? Are you not working/between jobs or similar? Or do you mean you don't want to afford it?
Selling the car with an unknown fault as big as this will mean you get much less money for it (if you can shift it). IMHO I would get it fixed - big problem or small. Remember, you don't lose money on the car until you sell it.
Why can't you bung the cost on a credit card? Are you not working/between jobs or similar? Or do you mean you don't want to afford it?
Selling the car with an unknown fault as big as this will mean you get much less money for it (if you can shift it). IMHO I would get it fixed - big problem or small. Remember, you don't lose money on the car until you sell it.
I appreciate your comments and it is a drastic step I know, but I've spent a lot of money on the car over the past 5 years and I just don't have the same income now as I did when I bought it, and as remote as the possibility is that it might be the block, putting £4-6k on my credit card just doesn't appeal, so I'm afraid the only real alternative for me now is to sell.
The idea SP has is to be absolutely honest with anyone interested in buying the car, let them know what the suspected problem is and that it’ll be repaired before sale with a warranty on that repair and then if anyone wants to have more work done to the engine at the same time i.e. the latest upgrades or even a rebuild by Austec then they can have that done in the knowledge that I’m putting a large amount of money into the pot as well. In effect they could have a full engine rebuild with all the latest bits and a full warranty at nearly half price.
I hope that this will appeal to someone who knows Tuscans and TVR’s.
It’s taken a long time to come to this decision and I’m very sad I’ve had to make it. I’ve been a Tiv owner for the past 15 years and have loved every minute of it, but to keep a Tuscan in the style it deserves you really need to have £2-4k available every year and that’s beyond me now.
However, I’m not leaving the marque as I’ll be looking for a pre-cat Griffith once the Tuscan is sold. A car I can work on myself, which will keep the costs down.
The idea SP has is to be absolutely honest with anyone interested in buying the car, let them know what the suspected problem is and that it’ll be repaired before sale with a warranty on that repair and then if anyone wants to have more work done to the engine at the same time i.e. the latest upgrades or even a rebuild by Austec then they can have that done in the knowledge that I’m putting a large amount of money into the pot as well. In effect they could have a full engine rebuild with all the latest bits and a full warranty at nearly half price.
I hope that this will appeal to someone who knows Tuscans and TVR’s.
It’s taken a long time to come to this decision and I’m very sad I’ve had to make it. I’ve been a Tiv owner for the past 15 years and have loved every minute of it, but to keep a Tuscan in the style it deserves you really need to have £2-4k available every year and that’s beyond me now.
However, I’m not leaving the marque as I’ll be looking for a pre-cat Griffith once the Tuscan is sold. A car I can work on myself, which will keep the costs down.
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