warming up garage or not?
Discussion
Ok guys i know this is probably a personal thing but i want to do the best for my t350,
ive been looking on here and different threads seem to give different answers.
Basically at the moment i start my car in the garage with no throttle and leave it 10 minutes to warm up before i drive off. (which puts her at around 45 degrees so instant fun), but ive read a couple of threads which say this can do more harm than good as the oil pressure is low at tickover?
So basically im asking for opinions pls guys and gals
ive been looking on here and different threads seem to give different answers.
Basically at the moment i start my car in the garage with no throttle and leave it 10 minutes to warm up before i drive off. (which puts her at around 45 degrees so instant fun), but ive read a couple of threads which say this can do more harm than good as the oil pressure is low at tickover?
So basically im asking for opinions pls guys and gals
Agree with Big Al.
More to the point, 3 weeks into ownership of my Tuscan a hairline crack appeared on the passenger side of the main bonnet section just above the exhaust manifold. Ended up needing a new bonnet. The suspicion is that the previous owner had been starting up and leaving it in his garage to warm up.....no airflow through bonnet = excessive heat build up and the bonnet blistered and sagged.....repair was made using Catty
which led to the hair line crack.
I would suggest you just drive it according to the advised warm up procedure from cold start.
Good luck
G
More to the point, 3 weeks into ownership of my Tuscan a hairline crack appeared on the passenger side of the main bonnet section just above the exhaust manifold. Ended up needing a new bonnet. The suspicion is that the previous owner had been starting up and leaving it in his garage to warm up.....no airflow through bonnet = excessive heat build up and the bonnet blistered and sagged.....repair was made using Catty
which led to the hair line crack. I would suggest you just drive it according to the advised warm up procedure from cold start.
Good luck
G
When its really cold mine needs about a minute to stabilise on tickover and then its a case of just drive and let it warm up as you go. Keep the revs low until the oil temp gets up and then go for it. I never let mine warm up whilst stationary in the driveway or garage because it takes so much longer to get to the right temp.
My brother rang around a few independents and the newer Spd 6 engine builders to discuss options regarding rebuilding the worn cams and finger followers on his Tuscan. In discussion most of them volunteered that they recommend not idling a car to get it warm but driving it gently. The problem is that at idle the oil pressure may be a bit low to get a good supply to the exhaust side of the head.
David
David
Hmmmmm - I asked this same question myself a few weeks ago as I found it hard to believe that idling your Sp6 for warm up oil temp could actually be more harmful than good. I've always warmed mine up for 10 mins first and then gently taken it up to optimum driving temps after that. Never had any problems, never used any oil and always sticks at 900rpm on idle when warm - apart from when air con is on naturally! 
Always followed this as considered the less stress on the engine when oil cold the better surely? And it helps to warm up the oil much quicker when on the road which I imagine is always good depending on where you are and where you are going etc.
However, ultimately as long as you follow the generic guidelines on rpm verses oil temp then I'm sure it won't matter that much. As long as you don't keep it idling in the garage! That is definitely a valid point
Always followed this as considered the less stress on the engine when oil cold the better surely? And it helps to warm up the oil much quicker when on the road which I imagine is always good depending on where you are and where you are going etc.
However, ultimately as long as you follow the generic guidelines on rpm verses oil temp then I'm sure it won't matter that much. As long as you don't keep it idling in the garage! That is definitely a valid point
Initially the problem is pressure not temperature. If you idle the engine to warm it up pressure remains low and therefore you get oil starvation. If you pull away you increase revs and therefore pressure which improves oil delivery to the head. If you are going to let it idle stay in the car and gently increase revs to 1000-1200.This is not a bad strategy as it increases temperature while maintaining pressure and therefore good oil delivery while the engine is under a light mechanical load. Personally I never go above 2000 rpm untill its becoming warm e.g. above 50 - even though the manual suggests anything under 3000 is OK. If you watch the oil pressure gauge you will see the effect of revs and pressure.
Don't idle the car.
>> Edited by sideways mostly on Tuesday 2nd May 14:54
Don't idle the car.
>> Edited by sideways mostly on Tuesday 2nd May 14:54
Never leave the engine idling from cold start up, maximum engine wear takes place when the engine is cold and an engine does not start warming up efficiently until you put the engine under load i.e. driving off. Keep the engine under 3000 RPM without labouring it until normal water temperature is achieved.
Quotes from the OPERATING, MAINTENANCE AND SERVICE HANDBOOK OF A 1964 5.7 V8 GORDON KEEBLE
WARMING UP THE ENGINE
“DON’T start up a cold engine and then leave it idling while you rush indoors to pay a belated farewell to your wife”.
In the interest of minimum engine wear, skip the farewell and drive away. When facing the music on your return in the evening, make a mental note henceforth to adopt a definite sequence of events prior to your morning departure. You will achieve substantially diminished wear from your engine and deserve greater affection from your wife”.
>> Edited by piper on Wednesday 3rd May 11:15
Quotes from the OPERATING, MAINTENANCE AND SERVICE HANDBOOK OF A 1964 5.7 V8 GORDON KEEBLE
WARMING UP THE ENGINE
“DON’T start up a cold engine and then leave it idling while you rush indoors to pay a belated farewell to your wife”.
In the interest of minimum engine wear, skip the farewell and drive away. When facing the music on your return in the evening, make a mental note henceforth to adopt a definite sequence of events prior to your morning departure. You will achieve substantially diminished wear from your engine and deserve greater affection from your wife”.
>> Edited by piper on Wednesday 3rd May 11:15
Lol, Ok I understand the points even if the speed 6 is not quite a 5.7 V8 
I think the reason for the idling is that raising revs when cold is *allegedly* the whole reason these engines historically have had problems! If you take it out straight away then I imagine the risk of raising the revs when cold is somewhat increased?
I'll ask my main dealer when i pick mine up from its 12k next week and see what he says!
I think the reason for the idling is that raising revs when cold is *allegedly* the whole reason these engines historically have had problems! If you take it out straight away then I imagine the risk of raising the revs when cold is somewhat increased?
I'll ask my main dealer when i pick mine up from its 12k next week and see what he says!
I'm still not convinced one way or another on this, good points about oil to the head etc, I always warm it up on the driveway for a few mins before driving off, prior to this getting it out of the garage and back into the driveway requires a few manouvres, so I would assume that the oil gets to the head quickly carrying this out prior to letting it idle in the driveway as said.
My S3 sounded rough until it was warm after a few minutes, the Griff sounded lovely at all temperatures, I always drove straight off in this.
I have not experienced any engine troubles at the moment with any of them and I will continue with what I'm doing till someone really convinces me otherwise.
I can't imagine that the car idling at low temperatures on the driveway would cause problems with the bonnet, as I would think sitting in heavy slow moving traffic with a hot engine, would cause more problems with heat retention?
My Griff overheated dramatically in these circumstances to the point where I had to stop and raise the bonnet as the fans couldn't cope, burning my hands trying to stop that piece of spaghetti they used as a bonnet stay from folding.
Wouldn't stop me ever owning one again though.
Best Regards,
James Sim.
My S3 sounded rough until it was warm after a few minutes, the Griff sounded lovely at all temperatures, I always drove straight off in this.
I have not experienced any engine troubles at the moment with any of them and I will continue with what I'm doing till someone really convinces me otherwise.
I can't imagine that the car idling at low temperatures on the driveway would cause problems with the bonnet, as I would think sitting in heavy slow moving traffic with a hot engine, would cause more problems with heat retention?
My Griff overheated dramatically in these circumstances to the point where I had to stop and raise the bonnet as the fans couldn't cope, burning my hands trying to stop that piece of spaghetti they used as a bonnet stay from folding.
Wouldn't stop me ever owning one again though.
Best Regards,
James Sim.
Absolutely - I had numerous problems with my griff on overheating too, something thats never been a problem with the Speed 6!
As to the merits of warming up? Well just got my tuscan back from its big 12k service. Fabulous and now going even more sweetly if thats possible!! I did ask the Engineer in the garage about the warming up procedures and he did have a chuckle!! From his expert perspective (25 years covering both V8 and Sp 6) he tells me that stories over 'damaging' the Sp 6 engine by leaving it idling from cold are 'complete nonsense!' He told me there was absolutely no problems with doing this whatsoever. He only added that the Speed 6 really doesn't like to be started and stopped frequently i.e. short trips to the shops etc. but that shouldn't really come as a suprise.
Am sure there will be others who disagree, but I'm going to trust the main dealer Speed 6 Engineer!!
As to the merits of warming up? Well just got my tuscan back from its big 12k service. Fabulous and now going even more sweetly if thats possible!! I did ask the Engineer in the garage about the warming up procedures and he did have a chuckle!! From his expert perspective (25 years covering both V8 and Sp 6) he tells me that stories over 'damaging' the Sp 6 engine by leaving it idling from cold are 'complete nonsense!' He told me there was absolutely no problems with doing this whatsoever. He only added that the Speed 6 really doesn't like to be started and stopped frequently i.e. short trips to the shops etc. but that shouldn't really come as a suprise.
Am sure there will be others who disagree, but I'm going to trust the main dealer Speed 6 Engineer!!
main dealer Speed 6 Engineer said:
stories over 'damaging' the Sp 6 engine by leaving it idling from cold are 'complete nonsense!' He told me there was absolutely no problems with doing this whatsoever.
That's quite a strange thing for a professional engineer to say. The mass manufacturers all say that driving the car straight away is better for the engine than letting it sit idling when it is cold, and I think this is generally true for all engines. I would expect a high output engine like the S6 that has had relatively little development to be more susceptable than most. I don't mean that letting it idle will immediately damage the engine (in the sense of something breaking straight away) but I think it would cause accelerated wear and tear.
Gruff Has A Point!
ok lets break this down into points!
1)I think we all agree that most engine wear occurs during the inital few minutes of running. (That part is fact).
2)It would be highly nieve to assume that less engine wear occurs under load, which indeed it would be when moving whilst cold.
3)The reason so many rattles occur from the engine starting when cold is simply, light weight engines have soft ali pistons, but hard steel liners. Obviously the ali expands at a faster rate then the steel!
4)Thus the rattles disapear after five mins and your pistons are not slapping around like your old man in a loose tart! My point is simple fly off cold if you like, I certainly wont be
5)Oil starvation is oil starvation whether your thrashing the bits off it or ticking over? if your trying to convince me it wont sieze up if you always have it ticking over at 2000rpm then do not assume you have a good car or can possibly ethically sell it either
6)Fibre glass melting down under normal circumstances and proper running temps will not occur,(fact) if any one is willing I am more then convinced that if we disconnect the fans all together the engine will sieze before the bodywork starts to even get warm! In fact I will contibute to the body work repair?
Any comments welcome from higher beings then myself.
ok lets break this down into points! 1)I think we all agree that most engine wear occurs during the inital few minutes of running. (That part is fact).
2)It would be highly nieve to assume that less engine wear occurs under load, which indeed it would be when moving whilst cold.
3)The reason so many rattles occur from the engine starting when cold is simply, light weight engines have soft ali pistons, but hard steel liners. Obviously the ali expands at a faster rate then the steel!
4)Thus the rattles disapear after five mins and your pistons are not slapping around like your old man in a loose tart! My point is simple fly off cold if you like, I certainly wont be
5)Oil starvation is oil starvation whether your thrashing the bits off it or ticking over? if your trying to convince me it wont sieze up if you always have it ticking over at 2000rpm then do not assume you have a good car or can possibly ethically sell it either
6)Fibre glass melting down under normal circumstances and proper running temps will not occur,(fact) if any one is willing I am more then convinced that if we disconnect the fans all together the engine will sieze before the bodywork starts to even get warm! In fact I will contibute to the body work repair?
Any comments welcome from higher beings then myself.
Wear on the valve train will be worse at tickover than at 1500-2000 rpm, and the oil pressure will increase at higher revs which helps too. But the main reason I think that it is bad to leave the car to idle until it has warmed up is that it takes absolutely ages for the engine to warm up with no load on it so the engine spends longer with nasty corrosive gases going through it and with clearances all over the place.
GreenV8S said:
But the main reason I think that it is bad to leave the car to idle until it has warmed up is that it takes absolutely ages for the engine to warm up with no load on it so the engine spends longer with nasty corrosive gases going through it and with clearances all over the place.
I am not listening to you Peter! your winding me up again with your blower!
Can I have it now please
GreenV8S said:
But the main reason I think that it is bad to leave the car to idle until it has warmed up is that it takes absolutely ages for the engine to warm up with no load on it
This is fact. Any mechanical engineer, or car technican will confirm this. Never warm up the engine at idle, it takes too long. The engine needs to get warm as quickly as possible, and to do that you need to drive very slowly and at low revs the first minutes, BUT DRIVE.
If you do not know how to drive using low revs, then warm it up at idle, but I would imagine that any TVR driver should be capable of driving slowly and with low revs, no? Yes, it does require sensitivity and a bit of concentration, but that is the proper way of treating an engine, any engine.
Lol - clearly there is never going to be an easy straight forward answer to this rather intriguing question.
I think the original query was whether its ok to idle for a little to warm up slightly first then take it out, which is what I do. I certainly wouldn't leave it for 30mins to get over 60 degrees on oil for example but I do let it idle from cold for 10 mins to get it at least a little warm.
As I live in london there is definitely no danger of any revs over 2k until fully hot anyway! However I would have thought that initial idle to warm up would be better to then put it under light load, rather than light load straight away from cold - idle better than load when cold surely?
Alas, no straight answer as conflicting reports and recommendations from all sorts. The engineer I spoke to said it was no problem to idle, and I'll continue to do that as a pre warm up before putting it under light load - it does seem much happier that way than when I first got it and drove off from cold under light load. I imagine TVRs pick up and drop off service do not pay their staff to wait around whilst customer cars warm up a little either!!
The weather is at last glorious - so here's to a wonderful summer with roof off enjoying the sun in our glorious and much envied pride and joy! Or as a youth told me yesterday 'Love your car mate, it's the mutts nuts!'
I think the original query was whether its ok to idle for a little to warm up slightly first then take it out, which is what I do. I certainly wouldn't leave it for 30mins to get over 60 degrees on oil for example but I do let it idle from cold for 10 mins to get it at least a little warm.
As I live in london there is definitely no danger of any revs over 2k until fully hot anyway! However I would have thought that initial idle to warm up would be better to then put it under light load, rather than light load straight away from cold - idle better than load when cold surely?
Alas, no straight answer as conflicting reports and recommendations from all sorts. The engineer I spoke to said it was no problem to idle, and I'll continue to do that as a pre warm up before putting it under light load - it does seem much happier that way than when I first got it and drove off from cold under light load. I imagine TVRs pick up and drop off service do not pay their staff to wait around whilst customer cars warm up a little either!!
The weather is at last glorious - so here's to a wonderful summer with roof off enjoying the sun in our glorious and much envied pride and joy! Or as a youth told me yesterday 'Love your car mate, it's the mutts nuts!'
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