The SAGARIS SPEED 6 - SOLID AND RELIABLE=FACT!

[SXS]

Its true, inside information backs up the picture which has been forming over the past few months. Revised components, better quality materials. New valve guides, new valve seats, stronger valves, stronger finger-followers with better designed oil feeds, revised conrods and a few other areas (classified)....

NOW IS THE TIME to buy a SPEED 6!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The engine is out of its infancy, and the SAGARIS is THE TVR to have!

The Sagaris, Not only the fastest production TVR, not only the BEST handling production TVR ever, but now with a 3 YEAR WARRANTY which covers ALL major mechanical issues etc, and ALSO an engine which has finally been sorted. (a press release would really help TVR, but I understand the reasons why they havent mentioned anything)

If ANY of you own a Sagaris or the new Tuscan 2, PLEASE report your personal opinion on the car, also a report on fuel consumption and oil use, and the general feeling of the engine!

I dont know WHY this hasnt been publically ANNOUNCED already!??????!!!!

TVR HAVE FINALLY SORTED THE SPEED 6 ENGINE!!!!!!
ITS AS RELIABLE AS ANY OTHER HIGH-PERFORMANCE DRY-SUMP PRODUCTION ENGINE!!!

This doesnt mean the engine will last for a million years, it is STILL the highest capacity+power-output NA straight-6 in production in the world!, but what it does mean is that potential buyers can finally feel confident with purchasing a SPEED 6 engined TVR!!!!!

TVR, START TALKING BOYS, LET THE PUBLIC KNOW!!!

So now, not only is tvrcraft available to provide support to the speed-6 owner-base out of warranty - to give the good old speed 6 a solid overhaul, but the NEW Speed 6 engined cars will probably outlast 50k, yup thats right, 50000miles+!!!! (as long as the engines are treated well with a good supply of oil and warming up sessions!!!!)

Why am I saying this???? BECAUSE people have forgotten that TVR havent been sitting on their arses and not done anything to the engine, they have actively been looking into making the engine stronger and more reliable and have what looks like, finally given the engine a solid build.

Now, NS, PLEASE, bring back racing!!!! Up-to 30 SAGARIS'es on track, the new Sagaris Challenge!!! Am I dreaming???? can you chaps picture imagine how awesome that would be? 30 saggy's screaming around a track all day?????!!!!

Its a NEW year, and TVR NEED OUR full support! The past is the past, lets leave it behind, she needs our backing, we need to bring in the masses who buy boring german boxes b'cos of the tainted image of the speed 6 can-of-worms.... that shit is history, if their engine build quality stays at 99%+ then there wont be one negative post on the engine anymore.

UNITE! NOW!



mods, please make this a sticky!

>> Edited by SXS on Sunday 22 January 03:04

[Cooky]

Top post mate, but imho Tivs and V8's are just ying and yang.

[lundy1543]

excellent post. Always believed in the SP6 engine, love mine. Will be looking for a used or maybe a new saggy in the spring. well done!

[Daftlad]

ASH, Family Sagaris/Tamora experience.
Sagaris
July 2005 - 2900 miles. Fuel consumption has been between 18 and 26 mpg.
Oil consumption 125ml during initial running in period but negligible since then.
Engine is smooth, feels tight and still doesn’t feel comfortable being used above 6,000 rpm.
Tamora 4.0
March 2005 - 4800 miles Fuel consumption between 21 and 27 mpg.
Oil consumption 100ml during initial running in period. 125 ml since then.
Engine is smooth, and starting to loosen nicely.
Both cars run-in very thoughtfully. Both cars run carefully (by the book) from cold. Both feel very strong together units
Tamora will not be used as hard as the Sagaris and will see normal services intervals with a laptop tune in between.
Sagaris oil will be changed every 2000 miles (filters at normal service interval). Lap top tweak with oil change.
The 4.0 engines in these two cars do not seem to have the same level of mechanical noise from cold as our previous S6 (a 2004 blue-printed 3.6) the 4.0 being significantly quieter. Generally, the 4.0 feels like a much smoother unit than the 3.6 – not as thrashy.

Nice enthusiastic positive initial post by the way ASH, well done.


>> Edited by Daftlad on Sunday 22 January 07:35

[lundinoir]

SXS is spot on! The Speed Six is one of the great engines!

Daftlad said:

The 4.0 engines ... do not seem to have the same level of mechanical noise from cold as our previous S6 (a 2004 blue-printed 3.6) the 4.0 being significantly quieter. Generally, the 4.0 feels like a much smoother unit than the 3.6 – not as thrashy.

My experience is the opposite. The 4.0 in my 2001 Tuscan sounded like a insane tractor from cold whereas the 3.6 Red Rose in my 2005 Tamora starts smooth from cold and feels much tighter and smoother to drive (and alot less twitchty which gives one more confidence on the road). I would venture to say that it may be that the quality has improved to a point where todays Speed Six is a smoother tighter running engine.

It's a shame that the Tamora (and T350) get forgotten these days with most post raving on and on about the Sagaris and Tuscan 2. Lets not forget that these forgotten TVRs are as potent as their more popular siblings! With that in mind it's the rarity of the Tamora is one of the reasons I find them so enduring over the other production models...

[Daftlad]

lundinoir said:

Daftlad said: The 4.0 engines ... do not seem to have the same level of mechanical noise from cold as our previous S6 (a 2004 blue-printed 3.6) the 4.0 being significantly quieter. Generally, the 4.0 feels like a much smoother unit than the 3.6 – not as thrashy. My experience is the opposite. The 4.0 in my 2001 Tuscan sounded like a insane tractor from cold whereas the 3.6 Red Rose in my 2005 Tamora starts smooth from cold and feels much tighter and smoother to drive (and alot less twitchty which gives one more confidence on the road). I would venture to say that it may be that the quality has improved to a point where todays Speed Six is a smoother tighter running engine.

I am comparing two 2005 built 4.0 engines with a 2004 built 3.6 (built to a spec quite close to what RR 3.6s were in 2004).

You are comparing a 2001 4.0 engine with a 2005 3.6 RR and I'm not sure that’s the same comparison. But I do agree with your sentiments regarding the Tamoras road ability.

[sideways mostly]

Champion post Ash. Have to say my 3.6 (05) is as sweet as a nut at 9000 miles. Could the mods have found their way to new 3.6 engines.

Deffo time to spread the news wide and loud.Are you going to post this in the general section as well?

>> Please can we make this a sticky?

>> Edited by sideways mostly on Sunday 22 January 11:45

[trackcar]

Good post Ash .. and you're the sort of person people on here read every post of .. so this can only be good news for tvr and owners .. good PR and good news.

edited to add : are we to assume tvr craft have had a sagaris engine in bits to find this out though? if so, when's their supercharged sagaris going to be seen?

>> Edited by trackcar on Sunday 22 January 12:01

[nsparey]

SXS said:

Its true, inside information backs up the picture which has been forming over the past few months. Revised components, better quality materials. New valve guides, new valve seats, stronger valves, stronger finger-followers with better designed oil feeds, revised conrods and a few other areas (classified)....

And there lies problem, to announce that it has been fixed, you to admit it was broken!

All the time we are going to have "classified" fixes, reported by customers, you would be mad to trust a Speed Six, I was told by a dealer that there was still problems when I decided to buy my Cerb just six months ago (not the dealer I bought my Cerb from incidentally) over a Tuscan 2 S.

When did these "new" fixed Speed Six engines first go into production SXS? Sorry but this post is all too Bill Graham for me! We need facts

We need the factory to:
A. Announce that the issues have been fixed
B. What they have done to fix it.
C. What are they going to do about all the "Pre-fixed" units that failed after a few thousand miles, (some more than once) and the engines that have not yet done sufficient mileage to have failed yet?

[UpTheIron]

nsparey said:

We need the factory to: A. Announce that the issues have been fixed B. What they have done to fix it. C. What are they going to do about all the "Pre-fixed" units that failed after a few thousand miles, (some more than once) and the engines that have not yet done sufficient mileage to have failed yet?

I just don't see how TVR could do this as I presume it would leave them open to legal action from current and previous owners who have paid for rebuilds etc.

However, option 'D', where TVR offer an upgrade to 2006 spec (as in the 4.0/408Bhp found in the Sagaris) for £xxxx would be an option I would have thought. If it comes with a 36 month warranty then I would be very interested.

[nsparey]

380 BHP now of course, according to the web site.

[UpTheIron]

I stand corrected. When did that change? Is there an official story to the change, or just a case of TVR being a little more realistic with their claims?

[gruff500]

This is interesting news indeed as TVR informed me last Aug (05) that the design had not altered since it went into production in 2000. They also informed me that the problem was a let down in 2000/ 2001 from a supplier with dodgy finger followers blah blah blah and that current problems are generally caused by driver error etc.

Where can we get the official line on what TVR have changed on the Speed 6? If these 'upgrades' have been made then surely it should be fairly straighforward to get this verified with justifications behind them?

[JR]

gruff500 said:

This is interesting news indeed as TVR informed me last Aug (05) that the design had not altered since it went into production in 2000.

Just depends how you look at this as far as I can see. It's the same basic design with the same inbuilt unwanted forces but improved materials and detail design changes (solid cam, revised oil pump location, crank oil feed, etc.) mean that the newer engines appear beter able to cope with those unwanted forces. Call that a new engine if you like. J

[yi8tvr]

SXS said:

Its true, inside information backs up the picture which has been forming over the past few months. Revised components, better quality materials. New valve guides, new valve seats, stronger valves, stronger finger-followers with better designed oil feeds, revised conrods and a few other areas (classified).... NOW IS THE TIME to buy a SPEED 6!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The engine is out of its infancy, and the SAGARIS is THE TVR to have! The Sagaris, Not only the fastest production TVR, not only the BEST handling production TVR ever, but now with a 3 YEAR WARRANTY which covers ALL major mechanical issues etc, and ALSO an engine which has finally been sorted. (a press release would really help TVR, but I understand the reasons why they havent mentioned anything) If ANY of you own a Sagaris or the new Tuscan 2, PLEASE report your personal opinion on the car, also a report on fuel consumption and oil use, and the general feeling of the engine! I dont know WHY this hasnt been publically ANNOUNCED already!??????!!!! TVR HAVE FINALLY SORTED THE SPEED 6 ENGINE!!!!!! ITS AS RELIABLE AS ANY OTHER HIGH-PERFORMANCE DRY-SUMP PRODUCTION ENGINE!!! This doesnt mean the engine will last for a million years, it is STILL the highest capacity+power-output NA straight-6 in production in the world!, but what it does mean is that potential buyers can finally feel confident with purchasing a SPEED 6 engined TVR!!!!! TVR, START TALKING BOYS, LET THE PUBLIC KNOW!!! So now, not only is tvrcraft available to provide support to the speed-6 owner-base out of warranty - to give the good old speed 6 a solid overhaul, but the NEW Speed 6 engined cars will probably outlast 50k, yup thats right, 50000miles+!!!! (as long as the engines are treated well with a good supply of oil and warming up sessions!!!!) Why am I saying this???? BECAUSE people have forgotten that TVR havent been sitting on their arses and not done anything to the engine, they have actively been looking into making the engine stronger and more reliable and have what looks like, finally given the engine a solid build. Now, NS, PLEASE, bring back racing!!!! Up-to 30 SAGARIS'es on track, the new Sagaris Challenge!!! Am I dreaming???? can you chaps picture imagine how awesome that would be? 30 saggy's screaming around a track all day?????!!!! Its a NEW year, and TVR NEED OUR full support! The past is the past, lets leave it behind, she needs our backing, we need to bring in the masses who buy boring german boxes b'cos of the tainted image of the speed 6 can-of-worms.... that shit is history, if their engine build quality stays at 99%+ then there wont be one negative post on the engine anymore. UNITE! NOW! mods, please make this a sticky! >> Edited by SXS on Sunday 22 January 03:04

Easy tiger, you getting a little exited here.


The head has not changed since 2000, oil is twin pumped.
The bad quality components have been resolved.
The cam angle still exists.
The crank still needs to be weighted.
Still has Knob jockey's reving them cold at 6k rpm.

[SXS]

There is always more than one way to skin a cat, either way, there can always be light at the end of the tunnel, with a few miles the proof is always in the pudding.... Hey, even the V8 in the XK's went through its own fair share of problems and over a few years its finally sorted, and Jaguar also blamed it on dodgy liners, chains, porous this and that etc.... every engine will have its ups and downs, but the public never know the whole truth, but as long as the issues are resolved quick, the damage is miniscule.... ok it took the speed6 a few fair years, but the company has been through a whole re-structure, change of ownership etc etc.... cant do everything overnight... but my moneys on the current crop, lurvlee cars, and its getting to be a bore seeing the same old griffs/chims driving around... come on boys, lets have a trail of tuscan2s and saggys up and down the UK roads
I personally cant wait to see tvrcrafts supercharged tuscan hit the roads, they'll beat the factory to it! Where the hell is the Typhon gone??????????

yi8tvr said:

Still has Knob jockey's reving them cold at 6k rpm.

Class...

Sadly, nothing can be done about these types, I've seen how many owners just jump into their car, start her up, rev her like mad and just drive off, not only tiv's but others too....

I wander if its possible to have an oil heater plumbed in that can work off the battery??? like a heating element in the dry-sump tank? could be another way of 'helping out the knob jockeys' ...... but that still wont speed up the expansion rate of internal components, which is another inherent design factor of a race engine.... I think a BIG sticker on the dash should read "DO NOT REV PAST 2500RPM UNTIL TEMPERATURE READS xxx".... but the real numpties will still miss that one too....
You speak to a few of these jap tuners, and you hear stories of people coming to pick their turbo cars up, and they just jump in, rev like mad and drive off.... the mechs just say "I'll be seeing him again, very soon".... lol.... driver training is another issue with high-performance cars.... but a stronger engine will take more abuse, and that is the bottom line at the end of the day.... strength to overcome stress factors and also numpty owners lack of mechanical sympathy...

[HarryW]

SXS said:

...... yi8tvr said: Still has Knob jockey's reving them cold at 6k rpm. Class... Sadly, nothing can be done about these types, I've seen how many owners just jump into their car, start her up, rev her like mad and just drive off, not only tiv's but others too.... I wander if its possible to have an oil heater plumbed in that can work off the battery??? like a heating element in the dry-sump tank? could be another way of 'helping out the knob jockeys' ...... but that still wont speed up the expansion rate of internal components, which is another inherent design factor of a race engine.... I think a BIG sticker on the dash should read "DO NOT REV PAST 2500RPM UNTIL TEMPERATURE READS xxx".... but the real numpties will still miss that one too.... You speak to a few of these jap tuners, and you hear stories of people coming to pick their turbo cars up, and they just jump in, rev like mad and drive off.... the mechs just say "I'll be seeing him again, very soon".... lol.... driver training is another issue with high-performance cars.... but a stronger engine will take more abuse, and that is the bottom line at the end of the day.... strength to overcome stress factors and also numpty owners lack of mechanical sympathy...

Never understood why TVR, or any other engine manufacturer, doesn't link the rev limiter to oil temp, not too difficult to do with electronics now days. In TVR's speed6 case it would completely remove that potential failure mode.

[justinp1]

HarryW said:

SXS said: ...... yi8tvr said: Still has Knob jockey's reving them cold at 6k rpm. Class... Sadly, nothing can be done about these types, I've seen how many owners just jump into their car, start her up, rev her like mad and just drive off, not only tiv's but others too.... I wander if its possible to have an oil heater plumbed in that can work off the battery??? like a heating element in the dry-sump tank? could be another way of 'helping out the knob jockeys' ...... but that still wont speed up the expansion rate of internal components, which is another inherent design factor of a race engine.... I think a BIG sticker on the dash should read "DO NOT REV PAST 2500RPM UNTIL TEMPERATURE READS xxx".... but the real numpties will still miss that one too.... You speak to a few of these jap tuners, and you hear stories of people coming to pick their turbo cars up, and they just jump in, rev like mad and drive off.... the mechs just say "I'll be seeing him again, very soon".... lol.... driver training is another issue with high-performance cars.... but a stronger engine will take more abuse, and that is the bottom line at the end of the day.... strength to overcome stress factors and also numpty owners lack of mechanical sympathy... Never understood why TVR, or any other engine manufacturer, doesn't link the rev limiter to oil temp, not too difficult to do with electronics now days. In TVR's speed6 case it would completely remove that potential failure mode.

I think the rev limiter is somehow linked to oil temp on newer Tuscs. I have also often thought of an 'oil warmer' idea. Although I have always waited to warm the carup before anything over 2500rpm, there must be *some* damage done up to that point. My Tusc was living outside, and on really cold days you could really feel the engine struggle to push the 5 degrees cold oil around the system. My best idea was linked to an Argos fan element heater under the car, but never went through with it.

Running off the battery would be ok, but you wouldnt want it to run the battery down. Perhaps something could be linked to something like the accumate or similar charger. Perhaps a circuit could be added with an electronic timer, so if your morning commute starts at 8.30, to get the oil warming from 7am or something. If the oil started at 40 degrees each time before the engine started surely this would help the amount of engine wear (and thus long term costs) quite a lot.

[bluebottle]

SXS said:

I wander if its possible to have an oil heater plumbed in that can work off the battery??? ...

That was an option on my Audi A6, i think they referred to it as the Severe weather package.

On the cold revving issue - when i had a BMW M3 hire car, i noticed that it had a variable red line on the revcounter, the red/green led's on the clock would move from 2.5k rpm to banzi rpm as the engine warmed up. I thought that this would be a neet addition to the TVR instruments to help the mechanically challenged not to blow the nuts off their SP6.

[nsparey]

SXS said:

come on boys, lets have a trail of tuscan2s and saggys up and down the UK roads

I assume you have placed your order for a new Speed Six engined car then.......

>> Edited by nsparey on Thursday 26th January 15:14