Speed Six Engine Mod
Discussion
I recently noticed my engine getting a bit noisier so took it to my friend who owns and runs a sports car garage in Nottingham.
Unsurprisingly a couple of finger followers were bent however all the valves etc were fine.
Normally this would require the engine to be removed to facilitate changing the followers along with the extra time and expense this causes.
However my friend has come up with a novel modification to the engine which should allow the followers to be changed with the engine in situ.
If this works, and there is no reason it shouldn’t then not only will it save me a large amount of money but should they need changing again in another 30k miles then it will be a matter of days and hundreds of pounds rather than weeks and thousands of pounds.
As the Tuscans get older people are going to want to run them on smaller budgets (no one is going to want to pay for a £5k rebuild on a £17k car) and this simple mod could well help.
I am just trying to get hold of the new finger followers now (a story in itself) but hope to have them in the next week or so and the car running very shortly after that.
I will let you all know how it goes
Unsurprisingly a couple of finger followers were bent however all the valves etc were fine.
Normally this would require the engine to be removed to facilitate changing the followers along with the extra time and expense this causes.
However my friend has come up with a novel modification to the engine which should allow the followers to be changed with the engine in situ.
If this works, and there is no reason it shouldn’t then not only will it save me a large amount of money but should they need changing again in another 30k miles then it will be a matter of days and hundreds of pounds rather than weeks and thousands of pounds.
As the Tuscans get older people are going to want to run them on smaller budgets (no one is going to want to pay for a £5k rebuild on a £17k car) and this simple mod could well help.
I am just trying to get hold of the new finger followers now (a story in itself) but hope to have them in the next week or so and the car running very shortly after that.
I will let you all know how it goes
Kipper.... you will be in for a surprise.... there is a lot more to it than just changing the followers... the craft team wont release much more about the bits they change, there is a few fundamental issues in there... sticking different followers in there might hold it up a little big longer or may not, but the fact remains, when they go in anger, there wont be a quick fix like 'just replace the followers again'.... the engine will have to come out....
TVR Power, TVR Craft, Speedtech - they've all got at least one thing in come - the engine comes out for the job!
Goodluck... but I'll stick with Al Melling on this one...
TVR Power, TVR Craft, Speedtech - they've all got at least one thing in come - the engine comes out for the job!
Goodluck... but I'll stick with Al Melling on this one...
Kipper best of luck with your fix and I am interested in the alternative solution to removing the timing cover. However I do concur with Ash....I believe anything other than addressing the flaws is a short term fix.
The following are the reasons why I went the Autocraft route.
1 From an engineering angle, I believe in their solution and that it will work.
2 I believe that soon this solution will be the preferred by many.
3 I believe that in the near future an S6 at resale will be more attractive and return far more having had the Autocraft solution. Rather than one with what is currently considered as having a like for like repair.
4 It is highly probable that the Autocraft solution will become the bench mark repair others will possibly try to buy into.
5 I wanted a properly sorted and reliable engine that doesnt become chocolate when I explore the power band more than once a month....(some of you may read into that what you want...some of you know exactly what I mean).
6 Fortunately for me my finances allowed me to make the choice.
7 I want to keep my Tusc for a while...I just love it in a way my missus can't seem to understand.
Only time will tell if my investment has been the right one to undertake. However, I am very optimistic.
Rgds
G
The following are the reasons why I went the Autocraft route.
1 From an engineering angle, I believe in their solution and that it will work.
2 I believe that soon this solution will be the preferred by many.
3 I believe that in the near future an S6 at resale will be more attractive and return far more having had the Autocraft solution. Rather than one with what is currently considered as having a like for like repair.
4 It is highly probable that the Autocraft solution will become the bench mark repair others will possibly try to buy into.
5 I wanted a properly sorted and reliable engine that doesnt become chocolate when I explore the power band more than once a month....(some of you may read into that what you want...some of you know exactly what I mean).
6 Fortunately for me my finances allowed me to make the choice.
7 I want to keep my Tusc for a while...I just love it in a way my missus can't seem to understand.
Only time will tell if my investment has been the right one to undertake. However, I am very optimistic.
Rgds
G
I dont disagree that the autocraft rebuild is a better complete solution. And if you want and can afford to spend that much then thats fine.
However you will not recoup the cost of a 6K rebuild when you come to sell the car.
I am lucky in that mine has done almost 30k miles allready and if replacing the followers in this way gets another 30k then I will definately be in pocket.
The fact is that the cost of expensive rebuilds puts some people of buying second hand speed six cars and a cost effective alternative can only be good for residuals.
However you will not recoup the cost of a 6K rebuild when you come to sell the car.
I am lucky in that mine has done almost 30k miles allready and if replacing the followers in this way gets another 30k then I will definately be in pocket.
The fact is that the cost of expensive rebuilds puts some people of buying second hand speed six cars and a cost effective alternative can only be good for residuals.
yzf1070 said:
Kipper best of luck with your fix and I am interested in the alternative solution to removing the timing cover. However I do concur with Ash....I believe anything other than addressing the flaws is a short term fix.
The following are the reasons why I went the Autocraft route.
1 From an engineering angle, I believe in their solution and that it will work.
2 I believe that soon this solution will be the preferred by many.
3 I believe that in the near future an S6 at resale will be more attractive and return far more having had the Autocraft solution. Rather than one with what is currently considered as having a like for like repair.
4 It is highly probable that the Autocraft solution will become the bench mark repair others will possibly try to buy into.
5 I wanted a properly sorted and reliable engine that doesnt become chocolate when I explore the power band more than once a month....(some of you may read into that what you want...some of you know exactly what I mean).
6 Fortunately for me my finances allowed me to make the choice.
7 I want to keep my Tusc for a while...I just love it in a way my missus can't seem to understand.
Only time will tell if my investment has been the right one to undertake. However, I am very optimistic.
Rgds
G
But again, we have not seen any of the craft engines stand the test of time, and that the changes work.
I would love to see them work, but you aint going to get any benchmark for these until 12000 miles more, and there is also the possibilty that the engine will fail before this with the craft conversion.
Looking at everything equal, yes, the engine designer is on board with this, but we all bitched about TVR owners being the test bed for the Speed 6 engine, and everyone that goes the craft route, is doing exactly the same!
I would have like craft to done some mods, bench test them and apply some more R&D, then, we would all be in a much better situation to say there is a different route to take.
Now, this is not a 'craft' bashing post, just stating the facts. Lots of people want to see what the results are, and lots of people are waiting for people to post on this forum the results...
I love the speed six engine, very very drivale indeed, better than the RV8 I had in my Chim, and much nicer than the Cerb 4.2 and 4.5 I drove. I for one would like all the S6 engine crap to be a thing of the past.
Lets hope TVR and Craft have now addressed all the issues in their 2005 onward engines...
Mr F
If the followers were bent, then fair enough (in which case, what caused this to happen?). If they're worn, however, you'll have lots of lovely bits of metal swimming around inside your engine. Replacing them is probably a good, short term fix, but in the long term, all that detritus isn't going to do the engine one bit of good...
And that's on top of the other issues that may or may not exist
And that's on top of the other issues that may or may not exist
Mr Freefall said:
I would love to see them work, but you aint going to get any benchmark for these until 12000 miles more, and there is also the possibilty that the engine will fail before this with the craft conversion.
Mr F
12k isn't anywhere near enough miles to say that it is a fix or better than the TVR original parts. Didn't S6 engine tech say that a properly built TVR S6 should do at least 30k before a rebuild? I don't know what data if any that was based on though. A lot, (majority from 2003?) of S6 engines from the factory have done better than 12k without any issues, mine included, (touch wood...). Once we have the majority of engines getting to 50k then I feel the S6 is adequate. From the descriptions given it does seem that the 'craft solution is credible but how will we know until the majority of 'craft engines are at 20 - 30k miles. Those guys should buy an S6 Cerb or Tuscan with a dodgy motor, fix it and do some serious miles. If they do that orders will come in thick and fast because they would be the first to show us S6 owners real data. Until then the best we have is TVR's current "New" warantee where they guarantee the motor for three years or 36k from new.
jellison said:
Didn't S6 engine tech say that a properly built TVR S6 should do at least 30k before a rebuild?
You are pissing me - that is not an engine - it is a JOKE it the above is true.
I am not suggesting 30k is good or acceptable, just that 30k has been bandied about for the TVR version of the S6, can't reember where I read that, probably on another thread here. There are a good few TVR S6 motors getting up to that mileage now, I think? So the alternative rebuild paths really have to go much more than 12k to prove anything, that is all I am saying. I still think if we can get to 50k reliably, that is just about OK especially if the rebuild does not cost an arm and a leg.
A predictable 30 k engine life would seem quite reasonable to me for a high performance low productin volume engine. I think there would be a lot of people who would be happy to plan and budget for a rebuild at that sort of mileage (bearing in mind that many TVRs do a very low annual mileage and that represents a good few years of ownership and probably several owners for most cars). If it was predictable then the people doing the rebuilds could plan and organise the work, prices and turn-around times could be managed, and things would be a whole lot better. This would be dramatically better than the current situation where an engine can seemingly go pop at any time, and you have no idea who will pay for it, or how much it will cost, or how long it will take.
Well the MOD has been done, all the followers have been replaced on my engine the timing chain adjusted and all back together without the engine leaving the car (less than 3 days work). It fired up first time and is sounding really sweet.
It's just having some touch up work done as well so should be back on the road next week.
It's just having some touch up work done as well so should be back on the road next week.
I'm fascinated to hear what the mod is .. I thought the follower carrier rods had to come uot of the back of the head, so have they cut access panels through the bulkhead? or maybe made a follower that doesn't have a complete circle where it goes on the rod to allow teh old ones to be cut off and new ones just inserted in place?
Sounds like a neat bit of lateral thinking has gone on at any rate .. well done and congratulations
Sounds like a neat bit of lateral thinking has gone on at any rate .. well done and congratulations
OK this as best I understand the MOD (I am a techie not mechanically minded) talk to Ady at..
www.porschegarage.co.uk for more details
They they revove the timing chain (this part is apparantly tricky but do able) this allows them to move the CAMs to eache side enough to drill a hole thru which the followers can be removed and replaced Kebab style.
The hole is then plugged and can subsequently be used should they need replacing again.
Simple really but very effective.
www.porschegarage.co.uk for more details
They they revove the timing chain (this part is apparantly tricky but do able) this allows them to move the CAMs to eache side enough to drill a hole thru which the followers can be removed and replaced Kebab style.
The hole is then plugged and can subsequently be used should they need replacing again.
Simple really but very effective.
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