Value of "golden" salvage Engine
Discussion
I purchased this engine to go into a Tamora -> Sagaris conversion. The syvecs is what did it for me.
After picking through the wiki on here it became clear that a Syvecs FFF 4.0 tends to get the same if not higher power than a powers 4.3, is more rev happy and more refined at lower speeds.
It's not been delivered yet so who knows what condition it's actually in but for me it was worth it for the Syvecs alone as I was going to get one installed at some point.
Considered the package an absolute steal if it's a good runner.
After picking through the wiki on here it became clear that a Syvecs FFF 4.0 tends to get the same if not higher power than a powers 4.3, is more rev happy and more refined at lower speeds.
It's not been delivered yet so who knows what condition it's actually in but for me it was worth it for the Syvecs alone as I was going to get one installed at some point.
Considered the package an absolute steal if it's a good runner.
I've just this morning been told you can get a brand new, fully built, FFF (buckets not fingers) cyclinder head from the real, genuine, TVR Parts company.... For approx 4.5k + VAT. They also sell the original FF design head too.
This means you can mix the FFF head with 4.3 and/or 4.5 upgrade....
Has anyone done a 4.3 or 4.5 upgrade with the FFF head ???
I wud love to know as I'm seriously considering it ....
This means you can mix the FFF head with 4.3 and/or 4.5 upgrade....
Has anyone done a 4.3 or 4.5 upgrade with the FFF head ???
I wud love to know as I'm seriously considering it ....
Watching that thread on the 4.2 with keen interest
As far as output is concerned I think the ECU is as crucial as the head. The new MBE has knock control now.
I personally think given how tried, tested and respected the syvecs is on other cars you'd need a compelling reason to go MBE over syvecs.
As far as output is concerned I think the ECU is as crucial as the head. The new MBE has knock control now.
I personally think given how tried, tested and respected the syvecs is on other cars you'd need a compelling reason to go MBE over syvecs.
borat52 said:
Watching that thread on the 4.2 with keen interest
As far as output is concerned I think the ECU is as crucial as the head. The new MBE has knock control now.
I personally think given how tried, tested and respected the syvecs is on other cars you'd need a compelling reason to go MBE over syvecs.
Absolutely! Add to that the syvecs isn't locked down you have every single function available to yourself with your own laptop with syvecs interface installed. So if you fancy going on a mapping course and mapping your own car you can! Plus do many tweaks yourself. As far as output is concerned I think the ECU is as crucial as the head. The new MBE has knock control now.
I personally think given how tried, tested and respected the syvecs is on other cars you'd need a compelling reason to go MBE over syvecs.
I may be wrong but the MBE also uses obd connectors whereas syvecs runs cat 5 leman stylee
borat52 said:
Bit off topic but... when people say the S6 needs warming through more than other engines to prevent wear is this mainly due to the FF's?
Is it even true? Any warm up procedure for the S6 from the factory or from a TVR specialist has been no different to how any petrol engine should be warmed up.borat52 said:
I purchased this engine to go into a Tamora -> Sagaris conversion. The syvecs is what did it for me.
After picking through the wiki on here it became clear that a Syvecs FFF 4.0 tends to get the same if not higher power than a powers 4.3, is more rev happy and more refined at lower speeds.
It's not been delivered yet so who knows what condition it's actually in but for me it was worth it for the Syvecs alone as I was going to get one installed at some point.
Considered the package an absolute steal if it's a good runner.
Other than the tarnished rep of the seller I'd be asking what bottom end mods had been done to cope with the extra rpms the FFF gives.After picking through the wiki on here it became clear that a Syvecs FFF 4.0 tends to get the same if not higher power than a powers 4.3, is more rev happy and more refined at lower speeds.
It's not been delivered yet so who knows what condition it's actually in but for me it was worth it for the Syvecs alone as I was going to get one installed at some point.
Considered the package an absolute steal if it's a good runner.
RedSpike66 said:
I've just this morning been told you can get a brand new, fully built, FFF (buckets not fingers) cyclinder head from the real, genuine, TVR Parts company.... For approx 4.5k + VAT. They also sell the original FF design head too.
This means you can mix the FFF head with 4.3 and/or 4.5 upgrade....
Has anyone done a 4.3 or 4.5 upgrade with the FFF head ???
I wud love to know as I'm seriously considering it ....
Issue with warranty overlap / continuity. Powers won't continue warranty on one of their rebuilds if an unapproved (by them) component is added / fitted. Hence why a lot f Power conversions are having MBE fitted.This means you can mix the FFF head with 4.3 and/or 4.5 upgrade....
Has anyone done a 4.3 or 4.5 upgrade with the FFF head ???
I wud love to know as I'm seriously considering it ....
The extra investment following a Powers rebuild is pretty steep.
Perhaps a Jason rebuild at Str8six would be the answer?
TA14 said:
borat52 said:
Bit off topic but... when people say the S6 needs warming through more than other engines to prevent wear is this mainly due to the FF's?
Is it even true? Any warm up procedure for the S6 from the factory or from a TVR specialist has been no different to how any petrol engine should be warmed up.Alot of the issues were due to poor quality components coupled with lack of lubrication (or an impatience to allow the oil to circulate).
Both my S6 cars feel different when they are warmed through and, frankly, I'm in no hurry not to allow them to warm up. Start then move off at a sensible pace.
My understanding is
1) mechanical sympathy inproves the potential lifespan and maintenance cost of your engine
2) there is no direct oil feed to the exhaust cam, fingers etc. of the Speed6 head, it has to find it's way there via a 1.5m route across the head after feeding the inlet cam, fingers etc.
Therefore driving hard from cold leaves that side of the head potentially oil starved
Note: it's still a problem when hot, especially at high revs apparently
1) mechanical sympathy inproves the potential lifespan and maintenance cost of your engine
2) there is no direct oil feed to the exhaust cam, fingers etc. of the Speed6 head, it has to find it's way there via a 1.5m route across the head after feeding the inlet cam, fingers etc.
Therefore driving hard from cold leaves that side of the head potentially oil starved
Note: it's still a problem when hot, especially at high revs apparently
mk1fan said:
Issue with warranty overlap / continuity. Powers won't continue warranty on one of their rebuilds if an unapproved (by them) component is added / fitted. Hence why a lot f Power conversions are having MBE fitted.
The extra investment following a Powers rebuild is pretty steep.
Perhaps a Jason rebuild at Str8six would be the answer?
Maybe or maybe not. Jason buys cranks and components from power hence the slightly more pricey option?The extra investment following a Powers rebuild is pretty steep.
Perhaps a Jason rebuild at Str8six would be the answer?
borat52 said:
Watching that thread on the 4.2 with keen interest
As far as output is concerned I think the ECU is as crucial as the head. The new MBE has knock control now.
I personally think given how tried, tested and respected the syvecs is on other cars you'd need a compelling reason to go MBE over syvecs.
Cost of add ons. £4K for syvecs does that include launch and traction control?As far as output is concerned I think the ECU is as crucial as the head. The new MBE has knock control now.
I personally think given how tried, tested and respected the syvecs is on other cars you'd need a compelling reason to go MBE over syvecs.
I'm pretty sure the Syvecs comes with everything with no additional cost, as before you can stick a cable into it and do it all yourself so unlike other options there's nothing to pay to 'unlock' AFAIK, it's down to the chap who maps it to enable and configure these features.
R35 GTR's have very sophisticated ECU's and even those guys swap out for SYVECS. I've no real knowledge of the MBE ECU so maybe it's great but I wouldn't consider it given a SYVECS option.
R35 GTR's have very sophisticated ECU's and even those guys swap out for SYVECS. I've no real knowledge of the MBE ECU so maybe it's great but I wouldn't consider it given a SYVECS option.
Incognegro said:
Cost of add ons. £4K for syvecs does that include launch and traction control?
There are no add ons with syvecs... everything's activated. 720 sequential injection,Traction control, flat shifting, launch, wide band, idle control. Every single function is activated. I wanted both my fans to come on and come on together. No problem plug the lap top in using the network port and I can configure it my self.
Syvecs will run variable cam timing aswell. That's why it's run on things like R35 GTRs...
It's sister company is life racing... and the Syvecs S6 is based on a life racing unit. Life racing run at lemans.
It's unlocked and feature wise probably better than the MBE which is locked down.
Never assume that just because it isn't retailed by TVR power that it isn't the best out there
In this instance The best products on the market are usually recognised as Syvecs or Motec
Syvecs S6
Comes with 70 pin motorsport type multi connector, 100 MHz full duplex ethernet for connection to PC for programming and data download. The ECU features:
1 CAN 2.0B interface
16 general purpose analogue inputs:
- 4 5V/bipolar, sensor/sync/speed, programmable trigger voltages
- 4 5V/Thermistor, sensor/sync/speed, fixed trigger voltages
- 4 5V sensor input
- 4 Thermistor sensor input
1 NTK/LSU lambda circuit
1 K-type thermocouple circuit
1 knock input
16 low side driver outputs:
-8 injection outputs (Max 10 amps)
-8 ancillary outputs (Max 5 amps)
6 logic level ignition outputs (5 or 12v)
1MB Battery backed internal logging memory
6 to 26v input voltage range with reverse polarity protection
2 regulated 5V sensor supply outputs with protection
Unregulated sensor supply output which tracks the ECU supply voltage
5 Seperately protected sensor and communication ground inputs
Dimensions : 181 x 160 x 51.5 mm
Main features at a glance:
4 Individual Ignition and Fuel maps
Fully sequential control of fueling and timing
Batch firing and wasted spark ignition
Individual cylinder TDC definition
Idle control, closed or open loop
Cam control, closed or open loop, up to 4 camshafts.
Rpm limit : 20000 RPM
Fully configurable Data logging with individual choice of logging channels and frequencies.
Fully mappable Wastegate control, with gear dependent boost maps.
Launch Control - Retard and Fuel cut strategies.
Traction control - Fully programmable slip targets.
Drive by wire
Knock control - Fully mappable
Full throttle shift cut - Open and closed loop, full programmable
Anti lag - 4 ALS Calibrations, EGT dependency, Jacked open throttle idle control, ALS Initiation strategy.
Full 3D mappable Nitrous control, Wet and dry systems.
Crankshaft/Cam Signal Oscilloscope with sync loss capture
User Programmable linearization of all sensor inputs.
Battery Voltage compensations
Upgradeable firmware
CAN Bus interface
Configurable I/O
Hall & VR Crank/Cam sensor compatible
Edited by m4tti on Sunday 22 January 21:51
m4tti said:
Never assume that just because it isn't retailed by TVR power that it isn't the best out there
In this instance The best products on the market are usually recognised as Syvecs or Motec.
Sounds great... I never assumed that at all, if that's what your suggesting? I attempted to shed light as to why MBE MAY be an option over syvecs In this instance The best products on the market are usually recognised as Syvecs or Motec.
Edited by m4tti on Sunday 22 January 21:10
Glad you can plug in and do what you need to do, I wouldn't have as much confidence in that dept anyway.
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