Problem restarting once been running - plus Error code

[Cockey]

Hi Guys

First time I've started the car for about a month after it sitting in a damp garage, and whilst it fires and runs perfectly, if I turn off the engine and try to restart it immediately, it wont fire. It turns over very nicely, but just wont catch. It's almost like there's no fuel. However, if I leave it to stand for about 30 mins, it starts absolutely fine.

The fuel pump relay is fine, and when plugged into the laptop, the fuel pump is turning on as the engine turns over.

The other problem which has happened at the same time is an intermittent !EFI Warning! message flashing up on the pod - (exactly same thing happened a couple of years ago and turned out to be a loose connection with the Air Temp Sender).

Plugging it into the laptop, under the fault screen it says that the Water Temp is BAD, and both AFR are also BAD (can't actually remember if it said BAD or FAIL or what. But is something along those lines!). Also, the water temp reading on the laptop says something like 96c, even when the car is cold. Funny enough, the pod temp reading appears correct.

Any ideas?

Cheers

[scotty_d]

Sounds like dampness to have that many issues flash up! Check the ECU harness and any other electrical connection for moisture would be my first job.

[EvoOlli]

POD Watertemp. has nothing to do with ECU Watertemp. So if the ECU says Water Temp Fault and shows 96°C even when cold I would change the Water Temp Sensor. It's around 15 GBP and you can change it in 15 Minutes:

Remove Top of Airbox, it's the left sensor under the throttle bodys, the one with the Junior Plug.

[Cockey]

Thanks guys.

Wanted to check the water sensor but after realising it was underneath the airbox I gave up.

Maybe I should just do it!

Any idea if this might effect the restarting of the car? Both times it happened (the only 2 times I've tried restarting it immediately) the car had been sat idling for a minute or so whilst I checked something.

Could the ECU be changing the air/fuel ratio due to high temp causing it to flood? Come to think of it, the BAD AFR read out is probably the reason.

[Quentin1]

In that case you might solve it by synchronizing the throttles.
But your temp sensor seems to be knackered anyway.

[K4TRV]

Cockey said:

Thanks guys.

Wanted to check the water sensor but after realising it was underneath the airbox I gave up.

Maybe I should just do it!

Any idea if this might effect the restarting of the car? Both times it happened (the only 2 times I've tried restarting it immediately) the car had been sat idling for a minute or so whilst I checked something.

Could the ECU be changing the air/fuel ratio due to high temp causing it to flood? Come to think of it, the BAD AFR read out is probably the reason.

ECU will determine mixture from temp, but it would be the opposite to your statement - If the ECU sees 96 C then the mixture will be lean not rich. If it saw 3 C it would more likely flood.

Change the sensor, but also get the software download and buy a connecting cable for a laptop - you can then re-set faults and the ECU Adapatable fuel tables for idle running.

T

[Cockey]

Thanks for all the suggestions. Perhaps if it's thinking the engine is very hot, it's running extremely lean in which case not enough fuel is being supplied to start the engine?

I actually have a laptop and cable. Out of interest, is the 2nd (or 3rd?) page on the software the only place to see faults? Or is there a separate fault reading software?

Like I say, the garage has been really wet with all the rain, and water has actually been dripping onto the bonnet. So I'm wondering whether it's just a case of being very wet. Car's with me at work today, sat in the sunshine.

[EvoOlli]

Take a look some threads down...this will help you a bit :-)


http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

[Cockey]

EvoOlli said:

Take a look some threads down...this will help you a bit :-)


http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

That's fantastic, nice one. Thanks very much.

[Cockey]

Just installed the software, it's really great. Means I can now use my W7 computer!

Thanks for programming that.

Logged faults show the Water Temperature Sensor. Temp is fixed at 94.9c, despite engine being cold.

After a short while both the AFR sensors turn red.

[EvoOlli]

So start to change the sensor, reset the adaptives and try again....

[Cockey]

Will do. Just ordered the sensor and will have a crack at it this weekend.

Sensor's only £10 but cheapest you can find it with postage is about double that!

By the way, does anyone know whether I need to drain the coolant before changing the sensor?

[K4TRV]

Cockey said:

Will do. Just ordered the sensor and will have a crack at it this weekend.

Sensor's only £10 but cheapest you can find it with postage is about double that!

By the way, does anyone know whether I need to drain the coolant before changing the sensor?

In a word.......No.

Have the new one ready, should come with a washer. Unscrew the old and immediately insert the new - there will be two or three drops of coolant lost - nothing to worry about.

HTHs?

T

[Cockey]

That's what I was hoping. Cheers

[Swiss Roll]

I'm having a similar issue with mine, although no water temp problems. Away at work for another 4 weeks but spent the first week away reading as many of these types of faults on the forums as possible.

My plan when I get back is to start with the simplest thing and that's the engine earth strap. Possible corrosion on one of the ends which can muck up any of the engine sensors I believe. I think my over fueling might be caused by the Lambdas not switching at idle, I need to confirm this using the diagnostics but in my mind it makes sense. If one isn't switching to 1v then the ECU just keeps putting more fuel in. Hence my horrendous pops and bangs and rough running and difficulty in restarting.

You mention its been damp so as an easy check see if the earthing is good on the engine. A lot of electrical engine sensor faults seem to have the earth strap as a common fix. Common test seems to be to stick a jump lead between the negative on the battery and a good earth point on the engine/exhaust? Then see if your sensors start working again.

Hope you get it sorted and keep us updated please. As it may help me when I get home

[konrad.holl]

I had the same issue a few years ago...

For starting when hot just disconnect the defective water sensor. It's some sort of a job getting the airbox open on a hot engine and putting it back together after starting . At least it's a workaround .

[shep1001]

Water Temp BAD is most likely when the sensor goes out of range.

[Cockey]

New sensor arrived today so will have a go at fitting tomorrow. Just hoping I manage to get the airbox off ok!

[K4TRV]

Cockey said:

New sensor arrived today so will have a go at fitting tomorrow. Just hoping I manage to get the airbox off ok!

Don't forget the "clip" hidden underneath?

Reach under with your right-arm half way underneath - same type of clip as the two which secure the wing side.

There's also a take-off pipe next to the bulkhead, left hand side, don't forget that.

Just eeeease the air box away from no-6 intake also next to bulkhead, doesn't need too much pulling/twisting.


T

[Cockey]

All done and car's working perfectly now.

Thanks for all the tips removing the airbox. Came off pretty easily in the end. Had tried and failed in the past after not realising you had to remove the 2 bolts which hold the airbox in place.

Diagnostics was showing 95.9c water temp whether old sensor was plugged in or not. As soon as connected to the new sensor the temp dropped to normal. Only got a bit wet when removing the sensor!

All in a very easy job!

Did need to borrow a very deep 19mm socket to get the sensor out though. Luckily one of my neighbours has pretty much every tool imaginable. However, only 1 of his 3 19mm sockets fitted due to the insides becoming too narrow to fit the plug.