Refurbishing my Tuscan

[FOT Fast]

Just decided to sort out my Speed six engine after lumbering around with an old V8 in the chassis. So I took off the timing cover to find out where the noise was coming from and it's pretty obvious that finger followers are shot which has also damaged the cams.

Just wondering if anyone can tell me if the head is knackered if it has those groove/scores in the camshaft bearing caps?

[m4tti]

Wow! What did it sound like when running. That bottom lobe looks almost reprofiled.

[FOT Fast]

Pretty awful....like some sort of terrible demented sewing machine!

[Walford]

FOT Fast said:

Just decided to sort out my Speed six engine after lumbering around with an old V8 in the chassis.

not sure what you mean what V8 have you had in the car?

[FOT Fast]

I had a Ford 302 engine fitted for a while but could never get it quite right. The exhausts(needing much bigger headers) and sump clearance were the issues. The only way to sort out the sump clearance was to dry sump it. That would have added more problems.......so just decided to go back to the Speed six. Just bought all the parts I need like the gearbox, wiring loom, bellhousing and clutch. Working on the engine now....

[FOT Fast]

I've been told that it's fairly common and shouldn't matter too much. Presumably this happens when a bit of metal gets in the oil between the camshaft and bearing cap. Not too surprising given how much of the finger followers I've lost!

[m4tti]

Hi Graham, who are you using for parts? Are you going to swap the complete head or replace the cams and followers?

[FOT Fast]

I'm pretty sure I'm just going to swap out the followers and camshafts and give it a good clean up. I've had to spend so much on the gearbox, clutch and all the other bits that I just couldn't afford a completely new head. Even just replacing the followers and camshafts is going to be the best part of £1000. Also, removing the head means I have to get a new headgasket and the head/block skimmed.

Some parts I will get from RG, some from Power. Might get the Camshafts from RND.

[m4tti]

Good stuff. Are you doing this in situ or removing the engine.

Let us know how you get on with the parts, although rnd come in for some slating on here I think the concepts behind their parts is sound.

[stlol]

FOT Fast said:

Some parts I will get from RG, some from Power. Might get the Camshafts from RND.

Not sure how you would stand with warranty on various parts mixed from different suppliers, I would go for all parts from Power given their reputation.
Don't see what benefit you would get from Rnd cams when your not pulling the head off, with the cams in that state you will probably have valve guide wear.
All IMHO of course.

[Walford]

Have you done leakdown or comp test?

[FOT Fast]

The engines been out of the car and stored in my garage for quite a while. When the engine failed the only symptom was the horrible noise. The garage did a compression test at that time and everything was ok but I really wished I'd done a leak down test before removing the cams.....school boy error!

My check for the valve guide wear was to look at the back of the valves. I always thought that if they were worn(or the seals were gone) you got heavy carbon build up on the back of the valves? Is it possible to check the valve guide wear without removing the head?

As for mixing and matching parts I wasn't being very clear- I'm buying things like new half times bearings, clutch release bearing and engine mounts from various different companies. None of that should really matter.

[Walford]

My concern is you have lost a lot of metal off the valve train, its gone into the oil, the filter may have taken most of it, but i would want to know
cut the filter open, look for white metal
and wash out the oil tank, to see what was in it,
hope this helps

[FOT Fast]

Thanks Grant. I'll take a look at the weekend. I think I'll remove the sump and have a look just to be on the safe side....

[BuzzBillsberry]

FOT Fast said:

Thanks Grant. I'll take a look at the weekend. I think I'll remove the sump and have a look just to be on the safe side....

Ditto Grant if there's any FOD...strip the block and clean it and replace the shells as a matter of course, the rings should be fine. It's best engine build practice to do it now and have 'belt and braces' rather than think yeah it'll be ok and 3000 miles later and having issues and going thro' all the rebuild carry on again...but that's just me.

Buzz

[Sagi Badger]

Best advice I can give you is to rebuild the whole thing.

SP6s get a bad press on here, mainly from those that don't know but in reality it is a simple design that in most parts works very well but with a few minor issues. You will probably find sticky rings in 6, signs of cap walk on the mains and shrapnel in the oil cooler. It will soldier on with all manner of things out of spec, chain tension, valve clearances and throttle bodies that behave like free radicals but you are not getting the best from it, 302 Ford... tut tut, this will run rings around that when on song.

Get the block stripped and checked for true, lined, bored and honed for 500 plus VAT. A set of rings and shells, the crank will probably be OK but check journals etc. Balance the rods and take metal from the little end. A half time upgrade and chain set will give peace of mind when a 911 is in the mirror. The water pump is easy now so go for it unless you are 100% sure its strong. I would consider the RG head gaskets as the upgrade keeps number 6 cool. A set of valve guide seals as a minimum for the head, save a check for true along with the cams and followers.

Sorry it seems like a long list but been there and built one for a mate and told him how to spend his money, which was much more than this. Now it goes well and he is happy.

J

[BuzzBillsberry]

Sagi Badger said:

Best advice I can give you is to rebuild the whole thing.

SP6s get a bad press on here, mainly from those that don't know but in reality it is a simple design that in most parts works very well but with a few minor issues. You will probably find sticky rings in 6, signs of cap walk on the mains and shrapnel in the oil cooler. It will soldier on with all manner of things out of spec, chain tension, valve clearances and throttle bodies that behave like free radicals but you are not getting the best from it, 302 Ford... tut tut, this will run rings around that when on song.

Get the block stripped and checked for true, lined, bored and honed for 500 plus VAT. A set of rings and shells, the crank will probably be OK but check journals etc. Balance the rods and take metal from the little end. A half time upgrade and chain set will give peace of mind when a 911 is in the mirror. The water pump is easy now so go for it unless you are 100% sure its strong. I would consider the RG head gaskets as the upgrade keeps number 6 cool. A set of valve guide seals as a minimum for the head, save a check for true along with the cams and followers.

Sorry it seems like a long list but been there and built one for a mate and told him how to spend his money, which was much more than this. Now it goes well and he is happy.

J

Well said J and in a nut shell

Buzz

[FOT Fast]

Well, I'm trying to strip the head down and was wondering if anyone knew the best way to get finger follower shafts out? I've removed the end plugs and can see a threaded insert inside the shaft. Do you use that to pull the shaft out against the head?

[Night Rider]

Have you removed the grub screw at the back at the head?

[FOT Fast]

Thanks for pointing those out, I'd missed them. Although, I kept wondering how it was held in place. Still pretty hard to get the follower shaft out and not looking forward to putting it all back together either!