Lotus Sport 160 upgrade kit (190 Bhp Upgrade)

[Kal-El]

Hi all,

Does anyone have any details of what the Lotus supplied 190Bhp ugrade kit for the S1 Sport 160 includes and how much it cost?

Regards

P

[thegreenhell]

I don't think there was one. You could buy a Sport 190, but that wasn't based on the Sport 160; it was a base Elise with a VHPD engine from the Exige/340R and a few other motorsports-related options. As far as I know there was no power upgrade package offered by Lotus for the Sport 160.

[Scuffers]

what he said, the 190 upgrade was a complete engine package (for some £11K at the time)

[Kal-El]

I have seen it listed on a number of sites e.g.

http://www.elises.co.uk/models/sport160/index.html

It says at the bottom it was available in July 2000.

A complete engine replacement for the VHPD unit would make sense as I can't see how you'd achieve that on the 160 engine without some serious upgrades. But £11k? Holy mother of God. Think what Dave Andrews could build you for that much???

Out of curiosity, what induction and fuelling system does the VHPD engine use to achieve 190Bhp? Is it the same plenum as the 160? And also, is the VHPD head on the sport 190 fully ported and polished or is it the standard casting?

Thanks!

P

[John D.]

Kal-El said:

I have seen it listed on a number of sites e.g.

http://www.elises.co.uk/models/sport160/index.html

It says at the bottom it was available in July 2000.

A complete engine replacement for the VHPD unit would make sense as I can't see how you'd achieve that on the 160 engine without some serious upgrades. But £11k? Holy mother of God. Think what Dave Andrews could build you for that much???

Out of curiosity, what induction and fuelling system does the VHPD engine use to achieve 190Bhp? Is it the same plenum as the 160? And also, is the VHPD head on the sport 190 fully ported and polished or is it the standard casting?

Thanks!

P

The 190 has independent throttle bodies I know that much.

Tbh I was under the impression that the 190 'upgrade' was offered for the S160, but I have no idea where I got that from. I'm probably confused!

[Scuffers]

190 VHPD is nothing like the 160 engine.

head/crank/induction/throttle bodies/pistons/valves/cams/followers/etc are all different.

[thegreenhell]

If they did offer a 190 upgrade for the 160 then it can only have been the VHPD. Anyway, I really can't see the point in paying a premium for a S160 over a base car, then paying another whack on top to get a VHPD in it. The 160 didn't have that much else over a base Elise to be worth paying extra for it if you're going to change the engine anyway. You may as well upgrade a base Elise.

[Thorburn]

I was under the impression that the 190 'option' on the Sport 160 meant they just fitted a VHPD engine.

[John D.]

Thorburn said:

I was under the impression that the 190 'option' on the Sport 160 meant they just fitted a VHPD engine.

Me too. Making it a Sport 190

[Kal-El]

To answer TheGreenHell my thoughts were thus:

I want another Elise but something a little quicker and more track focused than the mildly tuned S1 I had previously.

I am put off by the S2's as they weigh 100kg more. I think 180 - 190 Bhp should be adequate for an S1 and means I can run a standard bottom end.
The Sport 160 appeals as most have the LSS suspension, an improved cylinder head, tubular manifold etc. Also the cams sound pretty reasonable at 274 degrees and 10.7mm lift.
I am guessing with a decat, decent exhaust and perhaps TB's I would be pretty close to where I'd want it to be.

It seems I'd need to spend less after the initial purchase over a standard S1.

Thoughts?

[Scuffers]

Kal-El said:

To answer TheGreenHell my thoughts were thus:

I want another Elise but something a little quicker and more track focused than the mildly tuned S1 I had previously.

I am put off by the S2's as they weigh 100kg more. I think 180 - 190 Bhp should be adequate for an S1 and means I can run a standard bottom end.
The Sport 160 appeals as most have the LSS suspension, an improved cylinder head, tubular manifold etc. Also the cams sound pretty reasonable at 274 degrees and 10.7mm lift.
I am guessing with a decat, decent exhaust and perhaps TB's I would be pretty close to where I'd want it to be.

It seems I'd need to spend less after the initial purchase over a standard S1.

Thoughts?

To be honest, your barking up the wrong tree....

for pointers

S2 K Series were not that much heavier than S1's of the same age, ie. ~760Kg's
S2 111S with the VVC engines were a much better engine setup than the sport 160, in power, drivability, economy, etc.
S1 Sport 160 had a std head, not the VHPD or VVC head, they just ran 'cams' and a VVC plenum, hence why they idle for st and have interesting drive quality's
LSS on a Sport 160 is the same as the Exige had as std, and by now will be knackered (they were only Koni's)

if you want to stick with the Rover K, then the S2 111S is the best engine, and with some light work, will make ~170+

if you really want 190+ in a S1 then engine swap is the way forward, depite what the zel.lot's will tell you, a 200Bhp K is a hand grenade, if you plan on using the power, it will break sooner or later, and the costs to get to the 190-200Bhp are silly (in relative terms).

Edited by Scuffers on Saturday 8th January 14:10

[Thorburn]

Scuffers said:

if you want to stick with the Rover K, then the S2 111S is the best engine, and with some light work, will make ~170+

if you really want 190+ in a S1 then engine swap is the way forward, depite what the zel.lot's will tell you, a 200Bhp K is a hand grenade, if you plan on using the power, it will break sooner or later, and the costs to get to the 190-200Bhp are silly (in relative terms).

That's the plan for mine, swap to run an S2 111S engine.

The various conversions sound great, but way too far out my price range unfortunately.

Edited by Thorburn on Saturday 8th January 14:13

[thegreenhell]

Kal-El said:

To answer TheGreenHell my thoughts were thus:

I want another Elise but something a little quicker and more track focused than the mildly tuned S1 I had previously.

I am put off by the S2's as they weigh 100kg more. I think 180 - 190 Bhp should be adequate for an S1 and means I can run a standard bottom end.
The Sport 160 appeals as most have the LSS suspension, an improved cylinder head, tubular manifold etc. Also the cams sound pretty reasonable at 274 degrees and 10.7mm lift.
I am guessing with a decat, decent exhaust and perhaps TB's I would be pretty close to where I'd want it to be.

It seems I'd need to spend less after the initial purchase over a standard S1.

Thoughts?

If you go the Sport 160 route, assuming you find a good, totally standard example, then you'll end up spending around £15k in total to buy the car and add the engine mods you suggest. This will give you an engine with a mildly ported head but still with the standard valve sizes from the 118bhp base engine, some lumpy cams, TBs and an Emerald ECU, giving probably 175ish bhp. It will have the standard, long ratio gearbox, and it may have LSS (by no means all 160s had this, btw). You'll also have a spoiler on the back, some nice but very heavy wheels, and some stickers and different seats to a base car.

Assuming that £15k spent above is your budget to buy and fettle a car, you could instead buy a nice S1 111S, fit some Nitrons and send it to DVA for his K06 kit and 185bhp. This will be a much nicer engine to drive with it's better breathing head and variable valve timing. It will also have the close ratio gearbox and comfier seats.

Alternatively, you could buy a tidy standard S1 for £7-8k and spend the remainder getting DVA to build you a new engine of similar power (see his K05 kit for 185bhp from a non VVC K), fit a close ratio box, some Nitrons and better seats and generally prep the car to be more focussed for the track if that's what you're after.

Personally I would only go for the Sport 160 if you want one for what it is. The premium for a good one over a standard car is not worth it for the extra bits and bobs you get with it if you're looking to use it as a base for modifying, and once you start modifying it you will quickly lose the essence of what made a 160 special over the standard car. The other alternatives will get you arguably a better car in the end because you will have more of your budget left to upgrade the bits that matter.

Edited by thegreenhell on Saturday 8th January 16:09

[Sumshi]

and then take some lessons on how to perform on track ......

[Kal-El]

Thanks for all the input.

Having looked at the prices I would probably be better off with a basic. S2 111S which has the newer style shocks and 160 Bhp out of the box. (incidentally can anyone tell me how they make the extra 15 hp over the earlier VVC engine)
With a tubular manifold, decat, exhaust and induction it should be pretty quick. Has anyone got a dyno of a car with this sort of spec?
Also can anyone tell me what the standard VVC plenum with 52mm TB is capable of producing power wise before you need to upgrade to dth TB's?

[Scuffers]

S1 VVC and S2 VVC engines are significantly different.

[Kal-El]

Scuffers, do you know what those differences are?

[thegreenhell]

The 160 engine has a better combustion chamber shape with less shrouding of the valves, individual coil-on-plug ignition, a different ECU and stronger pistons.

[thegreenhell]

Kal-El said:

Also can anyone tell me what the standard VVC plenum with 52mm TB is capable of producing power wise before you need to upgrade to dth TB's?

There are two main obstacles to tuning the VVC: the plenum and the VVC mechanisms.

If you keep both the plenum and VVC mechs then the only tuning you can do to the engine is to port the head, fit a different exhaust cam, and the usual external bolt-ons such as exhaust and induction kit. This will at best give you around 175bhp.

If you then fit DTHTBs, but still retain the VVC mechs, you may get 180-185bhp, but you will still be limited by the VVC which won't allow you to change the cams or increase the rev limit much above standard.

Alternatively, you could ditch the VVC mechs for a Piper cam kit, but retain the plenum. This will also see you around the 180bhp mark, but you will be limited by what cams will run smoothly with the plenum. If you go for a cam with too much overlap then you won't get the engine to idle or pull smoothly.

To get more power than this you really need to ditch the VVC mechs and fit DTHTBs. If you fit Piper 285 cams, the best you can fit before you have to convert the engine to solid tappets, then you should be in the region of 190-200bhp. However, at this point you will also need to start thinking about a bottom-end rebuild and fitting forged pistons, and it starts to get very expensive.

[Kal-El]

Thanks guys, I am begining to formulate a much more informed plan.

Sounds like an S2 111s is the way forward (only marginally heavier) has better shocks and springs than a S1, close ratio box, will be much newer and no more expensive than a decent Sport 160.

Then it seems I could upgrade it in the following phases:

Phase1
EBD 4-2-1, de-cat, exhaust
Induction kit

Phase2
DVA ported head (std valve sizes)
Piper exhaust cam
verniers

Phase3 (in 10 years time when I can afford it)
Emerald ECU
Jenvey TB's
Piper 285H cam and VVC blanking kit.
Lightweight steel flywheel

I've look been looking on the eliseparts site and they reckon the Trophy 160 pistons are good for 200Bhp.

Of course, that will all cost a small fortune, and now I am wondering if I'd just be better off with a 111R?

Sigh