Buying My Dream....

[HereBeMonsters]

I've always said I'll have a Porsche or a Lotus before I'm 30. Now the time has come, wife has approved funds to be released and I have a budget for a late S1 or early S2. It will be replacing the MX-5, and the Octavia will be going as I will hopefully no longer need a commuter.

Basically I'm just looking for a buyers guide or something for late S1s or early S2s. I have driven a Sport 160 about 5 years ago on a trackday (and crashed it, but that's another story) but that's the limit of my experience really. Sat in a couple in dealers, but not really sure what to look for.

I don't care what special edition etc. it is as I can always upgrade later. Just one that I like the look of, that I can look out of the window and say "wow" to myself.

So, can anyone point me in the direction of a decent buyer's guide? I've had a look on Seloc, but the articles are either too specific, or too general. Perhaps I'm looking in the wrong place, I don't know.

For a start, is a "boggo" K-series S2 fast enough with its 120-ish bhp? My 205 does around 6.8 seconds to 60, as does the Octavia, will I regret not going for a higher output engine on the S2?

Boot space. Is there realistically enough storage space for a weekend away - Le Mans, 'ring, camping trip in England? If I get a hard top, will I have to leave it at home, or is there a stowage space for it? Is there any storage in the front, like in a Boxster?

Thanks in advance!

[ModMan]

Hello,

Shall keep it short

Buyers Guide - http://www.elises.co.uk/features/buyersguide/index...
Hard top - Don't bother, they're expensive and a faff to put on and off and store, soft top is just as water proof.
Boot space - Fine for a week away, just pack in soft bags as they can squash anywhere in the boot, behind the seats etc. Often take mine camping.
Engine - I started with a S1 135 and it was brilliant on road and track. Only upgraded after 5 years because a Honda car came up, but for teh 1st 5 years I couldn't have been happier or wanted for more.

[HereBeMonsters]

ModMan said:

Hello,

Shall keep it short

Buyers Guide - http://www.elises.co.uk/features/buyersguide/index...
Hard top - Don't bother, they're expensive and a faff to put on and off and store, soft top is just as water proof.
Boot space - Fine for a week away, just pack in soft bags as they can squash anywhere in the boot, behind the seats etc. Often take mine camping.
Engine - I started with a S1 135 and it was brilliant on road and track. Only upgraded after 5 years because a Honda car came up, but for teh 1st 5 years I couldn't have been happier or wanted for more.

Thanks for that. Buying guide looks exactly what I'm after. Should be able to create a checklist for each car based on that, ta.

I think I've made the right choice going for an Elise over the Boxster S I was also considering. Certainly more my kind of ethos, just hoping it will be ok for those long journeys with luggage. I was also considering a Caterham, but they seem to provide similar performance with less luggage space and at a higher price.

[simpo555]

Cant agree for the hard top. For me it completes the car and with the severe weather conditions of late it seems indispensible. OK soft top might be far better these days but chuck all the salt and snow at it and then see whether its a waste or not

[pthelazyjourno]

simpo555 said:

Cant agree for the hard top. For me it completes the car and with the severe weather conditions of late it seems indispensible. OK soft top might be far better these days but chuck all the salt and snow at it and then see whether its a waste or not

Soft top on mine hasn't leaked, irrespective of snow, ice or salt. Only time water comes in the cabin is if you open the windows. The standard Lotus hard top doesn't have any channels or such to stop water dripping in, so isn't really any different. I know the EP hard top has a slightly different design, but I don't think it looks as nice.

So another +1 for sticking with the soft top.

I thought the S2 S was a little underwhelming, my S1 seemed a lot quicker in a straight line. Could just be the additional racket it makes though!!

Whatever speed you're doing, it seems like a lot faster - it's not really possible to compare with the Octavia or whatnot.

Edit: Oops, didn't read the original post properly. Have never tried a K S2, so don't know what they're like in terms of acceleration.

There's not really any space for storage in the front. You can pack a few things in around the battery in the front compartment on an S1 - but it's otherwise filled with radiator/tyre weld can/battery/screenwash bottle.

Edited by pthelazyjourno on Sunday 2nd January 21:33

Edited by pthelazyjourno on Sunday 2nd January 21:36

[HereBeMonsters]

pthelazyjourno said:

There's not really any space for storage in the front. You can pack a few things in around the battery in the front compartment on an S1 - but it's otherwise filled with radiator/tyre weld can/battery/screenwash bottle.

So there is a front compartment then, but only on an S1? How do you access it?

Big enough for perhaps a small toolkit as well as the tyre weld?

I've seen a few in ads that have terribly worn-looking seats and steering wheels. Is it easy to replace or retrim these? And as I'm looking at K-series, should I be checking the history for the Land Rover gasket change or whatever it is?

[zippyprorider]

simpo555 said:

Cant agree for the hard top. For me it completes the car and with the severe weather conditions of late it seems indispensible. OK soft top might be far better these days but chuck all the salt and snow at it and then see whether its a waste or not

totally agree mine is ace with the hardtop on, with heater on it could be any car in that its warm and dry, and although neither my hard or soft tops leak the hard top just makes it a better place to be in winter (I would want to leave mine for weeks on end in the winter storms with just the soft top on), mine has 180bhp s2 k series and seriously it is not about the speed what that get another car unless you get an exige it wont rip your face off it is all about the handling roundabout b roads the speed you take the bends in the car a 120bhp is perfectly fast enough.

Andy

[HereBeMonsters]

Does anyone know of a Lotus specialist near Southampton where I can get it serviced?

[GKP]

20 minutes up the road in Salisbury: http://www.sportomotiveservice.com/

[thegreenhell]

HereBeMonsters said:

pthelazyjourno said:

There's not really any space for storage in the front. You can pack a few things in around the battery in the front compartment on an S1 - but it's otherwise filled with radiator/tyre weld can/battery/screenwash bottle.

So there is a front compartment then, but only on an S1? How do you access it?

Big enough for perhaps a small toolkit as well as the tyre weld?

I've seen a few in ads that have terribly worn-looking seats and steering wheels. Is it easy to replace or retrim these? And as I'm looking at K-series, should I be checking the history for the Land Rover gasket change or whatever it is?

The S1 front hatch release is by a cable-pull under the dash, just like on most other cars. The S2 needs tools to open it. You might be able to squeeze a small tool roll in there, but it would be so small that you could secret it in the boot or behind the seats without noticing it. You can get a surprising amount of stuff on the ledge behind the seats.

Seats and other trim bits are readily retrimmable, and several places offer the service, as well as Lotus themselves through their trim shop.

Don't get too hung up about head gaskets on K series engines. You only ever hear bad stories about them, but for every one that has failed there are dozens more that haven't/won't.

[CardShark]

I've got an S2 and the boot space is bigger than it looks, it is a relatively small opening though and the battery is in one corner but with some inventive packing you can squeeze a fair load in, especially if you use the space behind the back seats as someone has already said. Just be warey that the clam isn't too tough so don't have anything too heavy and loose bouncing around inside!
I have a hard top and probably use it for no more that 2-3 months a year, in my experience it isn't more watertight than the soft top and the advantage of the soft top is that it's a few seconds job to take on/off and can be stored easily in the car, the hard top needs some garage space when not being used, needs a (supplied with the car) tool and cannot be stored in the car.
Some people prefer S1s, some people prefer S2s, the S1s are slightly truer to Chapman's spirit but the S2 is a little more accomodating.
Either way, buy the best you can afford and don't be too put off by higher milage models, better to buy a more leggy car with a long and uninterupted history than something with lower milage with a patchy and ambigious past.

Happy hunting

[Thorburn]

If you want to know what they're like to run take a look at the write up in my garage, lots of information/rambling in there.

[HereBeMonsters]

thegreenhell said:

Don't get too hung up about head gaskets on K series engines. You only ever hear bad stories about them, but for every one that has failed there are dozens more that haven't/won't.

Yes, I realise that, but I'm a great believer in prevention rather than cure.


Thanks for all the other replies, sifting through the stuff now, many thanks.

[HereBeMonsters]

Thorburn said:

If you want to know what they're like to run take a look at the write up in my garage, lots of information/rambling in there.

Jesus, it's cost you almost four grand a year to run? Are you off-roading it or something?


I was very tempted by a Maserati 3200 which is also in this price range, but scared off by talk of maintenence at £3-4k a year. If the super-spartan Lotus is the same then I might as well get the Maser...

[pthelazyjourno]

HereBeMonsters said:

Thorburn said:

If you want to know what they're like to run take a look at the write up in my garage, lots of information/rambling in there.

Jesus, it's cost you almost four grand a year to run? Are you off-roading it or something?


I was very tempted by a Maserati 3200 which is also in this price range, but scared off by talk of maintenence at £3-4k a year. If the super-spartan Lotus is the same then I might as well get the Maser...

Thing is, with the Maser you could end up with one bill that could cost £3-4k!! Get a few things wrong, and you've paid the cost of the car again in one go...

It depends what you use the Elise for. If it's tracked, it's inevitable that things will need changing. It gets through things such as suspension parts/bushes/joints/dampers like they're consumables - again because they're driven hard.

Over a few years it shouldn't cost more than £1-2k a year - you'll no doubt get cheaper years, but there may well be some pricey ones in there too.

I paid quite a lot for a higher mileage car, but then again it had had everything recently refreshed - suspension, radiator, discs, pads, belts, roof, seats retrimmed, exhaust etc etc. From there, just make sure it's serviced on time, and maintained properly - it shouldn't cost you the earth.

The 3200 is getting on a bit now too - so everything that can fail on the Elise can no doubt fail on the Maser, and like you say that's a helluva lot more complicated. Labour will cost more for the same jobs, parts will cost more - lets face it, it's not exactly a Rover 200 engine!

It's also twice the weight - you're not going to get a full set of tyres for £250-£500, brakes and consumables will cost at least twice as much, TBH it's a different league. If you can't afford to buy it twice over, I wouldn't bother. Just my opinion though - my Fiat Coupe turbo cost me £4k in 12 months last year, so I definitely wouldn't consider a Maser without a bloody big budget. You're also not going to get 40mpg+!!

As mentioned, there is room for a roll-up tool kit in the front compartment - I'll take some pics tomorrow if you're interested. There are a surprising amount of nooks for putting things, it's not too impractical once you get past the size of the door aperture!

[CardShark]

^^^ Exactly ^^^

Having speed read part of the blog quite a bit of the money was spent on up grades as well, not things that *really* needed to be done. My S2 has had a couple of issues but has cost nothing like that amount to sort out in the 20 months and 10k miles I've had it, though it's always prudent to keep £1k aside in your sky rocket just incase anyway. Buy a goodun' and you could even find that it's relatively cheap considering the performance!

[HereBeMonsters]

Of the numerous reasons for choosing a Lotus over a Porsche (or, in a distant dream world, a Maserati) the relative cheapness of maintenance was one of them. Bit worried if it's not as cheap as I thought!

I'm certainly of the belief that when something goes wrong or needs replacing, it's time for an upgrade - I've done that to great effect with my 205 - so perhaps that's the way forward here. Please tell me they're more reliable than TVRs!

[boobles]

My first S1 Elise was the most reliable car I have owned. Ok I did replace the head gasket but 33k miles in 18 months & £500 in repairs isn't too bad in my opinion. They also make you smile EVERY single time you drive them.

[pthelazyjourno]

HereBeMonsters said:

Of the numerous reasons for choosing a Lotus over a Porsche (or, in a distant dream world, a Maserati) the relative cheapness of maintenance was one of them. Bit worried if it's not as cheap as I thought!

I'm certainly of the belief that when something goes wrong or needs replacing, it's time for an upgrade - I've done that to great effect with my 205 - so perhaps that's the way forward here. Please tell me they're more reliable than TVRs!

I think mine's on 78k, starts first time every time. The K series is a good engine, let down by hugely variable build quality. The only real thing that ever goes wrong with them en mass is the head gasket - and because of that it gets absolutely slated.

Fix it once, fix it properly, and there's no reason it should go again. £800 to fix, it's not worth worrying about.

I've been friends/relatives with a few owners, and none have had any issues at all - except one chap with a Toyota S2 who ran out of coolant, and carried on driving until it just about blew up. Not exactly the car's fault...

What's there to go wrong? If you buy an S1, there's no ABS, no electric windows, no central locking, no electric mirrors, no power steering, no air con. It doesn't need most (I'd probably have ABS if I could), and having paid a fortune on maintaining other cars I'm bloody glad it doesn't have things to go wrong!!!

Buy one with a good history, and you can see exactly what's been fixed, what's broken, what's been keeping on top of maintenance, and what you can expect to change in the near future.

They're getting on a bit, so some jobs can be a pig purely because of rusted bolts/parts. Again - no different to most other cars.

More reliable than a TVR? I'd say so, definitely. They're a lot more simple when it comes to electrics, the chassis won't be quietly rusting away out of sight, and if you buy new panels they're a damn sight more likely to fit properly.

I was talking to a chap the last time mine was being serviced - he also had a TVR Chim in at the same time, and he pointed out just how much he hated working on TVRs. Had a grumble about the amount of times he'd replaced panels, and the new ones needed a helluva lot of work before they'd even fit properly.

Body parts on the Elise all fit pretty much spot on, it's a lot more likely to be the same on one side as it is the other! I also have every faith that it will get me to where I'm going, without issues, on a daily basis. My cousin had one for 7 years while he lived in Japan - somebody would run it every now and again to keep the battery charged, and it always started on the button every time he came back to the UK.

In comparison to a Maser, a Porsche, I wouldn't even consider owning one without twice the budget I have for my Elise. This year - 5,000 - I've upgraded the toe links, £300, replaced the clips holding my windows - £30 for glass adhesive, and have set aside around £700 for a service. May cost £150, may cost a lot more - either way it's hardly supercar running costs. There will be niggles - it's inevitable on a small handbuilt car - but it'll be things like the cable opening the boot failing, rather than the engine blowing up!

On a run, I easily get over 30mpg, on a motorway often over 40mpg. This side of a Caterham 7, I can't think of a sportscar that's so affordable to run.

[HereBeMonsters]

Thanks again for all the replies. Sounds like it's going to be a little more costly than I imagined, but not a deal breaker.

How easy is it to do general servicing yourself? On my other cars I'll generally do a six monthly oil change and alternator belt/tensioners myself, and give all the other consumables a checkover.